Super Strong Symo - Soft within?
Symo has single handedly (largely, though with significant support from Hogg) saved the blushes for Australia on at least 2 or 3 occasions in this ODI series ending today.
He has been in demolition mode in India. While facing the Indian bowlers, that is. Whist facing a taunting Indian crowd, he turned a crybaby, like Ponting did when Australia lost the 4th ODI.
The crowd's behaviour was despicable, to say the least. While down south of India, the crowds backed by better knowledge of the game stand up to salute a good performance even if it came from the opposition, the same cannot be said of some of the crowds in the rest of India, where even local heroes are booed and abused when they fail.
But, don't you expect super strong Symo to be made of sterner stuff than to cry? Afterall, there is a line of argument that the Indian crowds were only behaving like the Sydney crowd did last year, when they abused and taunted Monty Panesar during the Ashes tour.
Panesar was racially abused and called a 'stupid Indian'. And all that Cricket Australia said was give a lame excuse for lack of action "It's very hard to do anything after the event because the crowd's gone home and we don't know who it was," said CA's Peter Young.
Graeme Smith had forewarned that Panesar could be targeted. CA took no action and waited for an incident. CA cried from the rooftops: "If one person out of 100,000 shouts out an abusive comment it can be difficult to pick them up, so we do need help." The nice guy Simon Katich, the New South Wales skipper condemned the abuse directed at Panesar. But nice guys don't deserve a place in the national team. ICC was almost mum throughout this incident. Wonder what the match referee or ICC representatives were doing on that Ashes tour.
But ICC this time around has taken swift action. Chris Broad has already reported the incident and BCCI has swung to action. Wonder why ICC was quick to act this time around. Is it because the rules are different when big boys cry? This big boy really cried loud for sure!
| Posted by Mahesh on Wed 17 Oct |  42 comments |
That's us Aussies - tough, hardened warriors on the outside, sensitive wusses on the inside. I wonder if that means Nathan Bracken is a tough, hardened warrior on the inside.
The thing I don't get about this whole Symonds racist taunts thing - wasn't he taunted for being black? By a black crowd? What am I missing here?
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 13:47:47
The thing I don't get about this whole Symonds racist taunts thing - wasn't he taunted for being black? By a black crowd? What am I missing here?
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 13:47:47
This is a pathetic article. Lots of insults, lots of quotes taken out of context. Why is Ponting a cry baby after the 4th ODI? Explain or Link?
This is the full quote from Peter Young.
-------------------
"Australian crowds always give English players plenty of banter and that's fine as long as it doesn't step over the appropriate boundary," said Young.
"Anyone who hears a comment like that would be helping us if they immediately reported it to the ground authorities.
"We have put the public on notice that the monitoring of crowd behaviour is going to be significantly upgraded this year.
"We're trialling an SMS texting system where we're inviting spectators who either hear or witness inappropriate behaviour to call the number so that ground authorities can be aware of the issue.
"If one person out of 100,000 shouts out an abusive comment it can be difficult to pick them up, so we do need help."
--------------
Notice how they are trying to take action and not simply saying, it never happened, unlike India.
Also the reason Katich was quoted as condemning the action is because the game in which he was abused was played against NSW therefore the logical person to talk to is the captain of the opposing team.
Also look at the umpires, this isn't an ICC match, its a warmup match, there the ICC isn't involved.
But hey don't let the facts hamper your hate filled article.
JC got to say if this is the standard of your blog, its pathetic. Also your comment that isn't Symmonds black therefore he can't be racially abused by another black person is idiotic. Is that like how you say the Japanese can't be racist to the chinese, or Koreans, after all they all look the same?
This is typical if an "Australian" calls racist abuse everyone calls him a cry baby, if a minority or a sub-continent calls racists everyone falls all over themselves apologising.
So when did Symonds surrender his right to complain about abuse he found offensive? Is it because he is Australian? Just because he is an outstanding player and a "tough guy" why does he have to put up with that sort of behaviour?
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-17 14:12:39
This is the full quote from Peter Young.
-------------------
"Australian crowds always give English players plenty of banter and that's fine as long as it doesn't step over the appropriate boundary," said Young.
"Anyone who hears a comment like that would be helping us if they immediately reported it to the ground authorities.
"We have put the public on notice that the monitoring of crowd behaviour is going to be significantly upgraded this year.
"We're trialling an SMS texting system where we're inviting spectators who either hear or witness inappropriate behaviour to call the number so that ground authorities can be aware of the issue.
"If one person out of 100,000 shouts out an abusive comment it can be difficult to pick them up, so we do need help."
--------------
Notice how they are trying to take action and not simply saying, it never happened, unlike India.
Also the reason Katich was quoted as condemning the action is because the game in which he was abused was played against NSW therefore the logical person to talk to is the captain of the opposing team.
Also look at the umpires, this isn't an ICC match, its a warmup match, there the ICC isn't involved.
But hey don't let the facts hamper your hate filled article.
JC got to say if this is the standard of your blog, its pathetic. Also your comment that isn't Symmonds black therefore he can't be racially abused by another black person is idiotic. Is that like how you say the Japanese can't be racist to the chinese, or Koreans, after all they all look the same?
This is typical if an "Australian" calls racist abuse everyone calls him a cry baby, if a minority or a sub-continent calls racists everyone falls all over themselves apologising.
So when did Symonds surrender his right to complain about abuse he found offensive? Is it because he is Australian? Just because he is an outstanding player and a "tough guy" why does he have to put up with that sort of behaviour?
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-17 14:12:39
Re the racial abuse, my impression was the type of taunts directed towards Symonds were the type typically used towards black players (similar to those used when South Africa toured Australia) - and they were directed towards the only black player in the Australian side. But that interpretation doesn't make any sense, hence I assume I must be missing something.
Re your comment "hate filled article", I think you're misconstruing Mahesh's intent. I believe he was being tongue in cheek about Australians being cry babies and Simon Katich being sacked for being a nice guy.
Lastly, I've programmed a page that displays those who've posted the most comments. As you and Dan are up in top 4 (I've already emailed TA to see if he's interested), I was hoping you guys might be up for joining the blog team as well. Contact me if you're interested.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 15:17:20
Re your comment "hate filled article", I think you're misconstruing Mahesh's intent. I believe he was being tongue in cheek about Australians being cry babies and Simon Katich being sacked for being a nice guy.
Lastly, I've programmed a page that displays those who've posted the most comments. As you and Dan are up in top 4 (I've already emailed TA to see if he's interested), I was hoping you guys might be up for joining the blog team as well. Contact me if you're interested.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 15:17:20
Welcome, Mahesh. Your guest appearances here should create plenty of debate. As long as your relationship with other contributors at this blog doesn't resemble that which exists as between the BCCI and the ICC, all should be fine.
No "Yes Sir, no Sir, three bags full Sir" for our Mahesh.
(Just how Malcolm can do that, while sipping his pina colada beside his swimming pool at his plush executive apartment in downtown Dubai, has got me beat- not!!)
The perspective of things cricket from a representative of the nation that rules the game will be interesting.
The expression "Stupid Indian" is not a racist one. Stupid is a matter of opinion, unless you are a qualified practitioner of some sort; Indian is a nationality. "Monkey" is not racist; derogatory certainly, and in some cases toward the monkey!!.
To say, Mahesh, that the BCCI has "swung into action" by displaying notices on scoreboards in upcoming matches is a bit of a joke. It is a token gesture, a polite response, to a timid approach by a weak-kneed "authority".
Posted by Dan Tas on 2007-10-17 16:10:53
No "Yes Sir, no Sir, three bags full Sir" for our Mahesh.
(Just how Malcolm can do that, while sipping his pina colada beside his swimming pool at his plush executive apartment in downtown Dubai, has got me beat- not!!)
The perspective of things cricket from a representative of the nation that rules the game will be interesting.
The expression "Stupid Indian" is not a racist one. Stupid is a matter of opinion, unless you are a qualified practitioner of some sort; Indian is a nationality. "Monkey" is not racist; derogatory certainly, and in some cases toward the monkey!!.
To say, Mahesh, that the BCCI has "swung into action" by displaying notices on scoreboards in upcoming matches is a bit of a joke. It is a token gesture, a polite response, to a timid approach by a weak-kneed "authority".
Posted by Dan Tas on 2007-10-17 16:10:53
Just wondering whether Symonds knows Hindi.
For the life of me, I cant imagine a Vadodra crowd yelling in English.
Just fail to understand how Symonds knew what the crowd was chanting.
Posted by Ottayan on 2007-10-17 16:16:48
For the life of me, I cant imagine a Vadodra crowd yelling in English.
Just fail to understand how Symonds knew what the crowd was chanting.
Posted by Ottayan on 2007-10-17 16:16:48
Brett Lee translated for him. It was when Lee converted it into Bollywood song form that Symonds really started to get upset.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 16:34:20
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 16:34:20
Okay, admittedly I hadn't really been following the Symond's incident in much detail, just going on what I'd heard on the radio. But I just read an article where Ricky Ponting defends Andrew Symonds who was accused of being 'precious'. One of my pet peeves in cricket is the ubiquitious use of the word 'disappointed'. Someone gets racially vilified, they're disappointed. Matt Hayden gets bitten by a dog, he's disappointed. Shane Watson gets his arm chopped off in a meat grinder accident, he's disappointed... but taking it one sausage at a time.
In this particular article, the word disappointed or disappointing appears 4 times to describe both Symond's and Ponting's reaction. All I can say is I'm disappointed with their unimaginative response.
Seriously though, it does sound like a bit of a storm in a teacup. The Aussie's reaction is reasonable if a little boring.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 17:09:53
In this particular article, the word disappointed or disappointing appears 4 times to describe both Symond's and Ponting's reaction. All I can say is I'm disappointed with their unimaginative response.
Seriously though, it does sound like a bit of a storm in a teacup. The Aussie's reaction is reasonable if a little boring.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 17:09:53
Well, I reckon that India's just jealous because they don't have Symonds. (No offence to Indian bloggers).
Posted by Aussie on 2007-10-17 18:12:05
Posted by Aussie on 2007-10-17 18:12:05
Hey Mahesh,
I have to admit I was expecting a higher standard than this. Where is your evidence that Symonds cried about this childish behaviour from minorities in the Indian crowds? Is your intent to flame the Australian readers of this blog, as having followed this story closely then reading your complete ignorance of the facts fired me up. Fortunately Andrew's reply took care of most of your omissions. Is there any quote to back up your claims?
As far as I've read, Symonds is "disapointed" that the BCCI claimed the incidents never happened. I too would take exception to being called a liar by a public body such as this.
"I will say that it didn't particularly bother me," said Symonds "Then somebody comes out and completely denies that something has not happened. That is disappointing, so hopefully it can get handled by the powers that be and put to bed." source
As for claims that he wouldn't understand the language, I reckon monkey noises and actions are pretty universal.
"A man in the $100 seats in section 4 of the Nagpur stadium jumped up and began to imitate a monkey and was joined by about 20 people" - according to (Australian) cameraman Matt Laing"
and "There is no doubt that for three overs in a row they were doing it, there were 40-odd people on one side of the ground making monkey noises to Symonds." - South African journalist Nick Sadlier who witnessed the racist abuse and is certain of what he saw.
---
Flying the flag
Beer and Sport Blog
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-17 18:53:34
I have to admit I was expecting a higher standard than this. Where is your evidence that Symonds cried about this childish behaviour from minorities in the Indian crowds? Is your intent to flame the Australian readers of this blog, as having followed this story closely then reading your complete ignorance of the facts fired me up. Fortunately Andrew's reply took care of most of your omissions. Is there any quote to back up your claims?
As far as I've read, Symonds is "disapointed" that the BCCI claimed the incidents never happened. I too would take exception to being called a liar by a public body such as this.
"I will say that it didn't particularly bother me," said Symonds "Then somebody comes out and completely denies that something has not happened. That is disappointing, so hopefully it can get handled by the powers that be and put to bed." source
As for claims that he wouldn't understand the language, I reckon monkey noises and actions are pretty universal.
"A man in the $100 seats in section 4 of the Nagpur stadium jumped up and began to imitate a monkey and was joined by about 20 people" - according to (Australian) cameraman Matt Laing"
and "There is no doubt that for three overs in a row they were doing it, there were 40-odd people on one side of the ground making monkey noises to Symonds." - South African journalist Nick Sadlier who witnessed the racist abuse and is certain of what he saw.
---
Flying the flag
Beer and Sport Blog
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-17 18:53:34
Hey JC,
I reckon Ponting would be "dissapointed" with his choice of finger to scratch his eye with during the toss interview at the beginning of the 7th ODI... gotta love Foxtel IQ ;)
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-17 19:05:18
I reckon Ponting would be "dissapointed" with his choice of finger to scratch his eye with during the toss interview at the beginning of the 7th ODI... gotta love Foxtel IQ ;)
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-17 19:05:18
Unless there was someone he didn't particularly like just off camera - perhaps the interview was conducted close to section 4 of the Nagpur stadium.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 20:50:54
Posted by JC on 2007-10-17 20:50:54
I suppose it could have been to the crowd.. though I reckon it was just unfortunate timing. He was in the centre of the pitch talking about why he chose to bat...
I wonder why Hogg was upset at being given out bad-pad from this one...
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-17 21:45:27
I wonder why Hogg was upset at being given out bad-pad from this one...
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-17 21:45:27
My, my... did I stir up passion? Did I strike many a raw chord here??
Andrew -
You obvioulsy did not get my line on Ponting being a crybaby. I must admit that I erred in citing the 4th ODI instead of the 20-20 Semifinals. Ponting actually cried after losing the Semi finals to India. certainly cried excuses ...he cited injuries, lack of match practice etc. I wrote here that Symo has become a cry baby too, taking after Ponting.
Did you watch Symo collect the Man of the Series award after today's 7th ODI which Aus lost? He did not smile at all. He spoke in monosyllables. He looked a beaten man, morose, as if he was at a funeral, almost on the verge of breaking down. Why? Was the racial taunt still haunting him after 3 whole days? C'mon. Where's the tough Ozzie manhood that Symo otherwise symbolises?
So Peter Young said "Australian crowds always give English players plenty of banter and that's fine as long as it doesn't step over the appropriate boundary." So, what does this mean? He is approving of banter and abuse? Young is actually allowing banter and abuse from the crowd. He only doesnt want it to step over the boundary. And it is not that his cricketers are following him to the word. Banter continues from the Aus players within the boundary too. Ask any team that plays Aus.
Everything else that CA did (making announcements to the crowd, whispering or chiding them to behave or else etc...like a school teacher does), has been followed by the BCCI too. BCCI too have put up boards reminding crowds to behave themselves. Ok, Monty was taunted only in a tour match and ICC does not have to interfere. But, all that Young said was "the matter is 24 hours cold.." and that he could not catch the culprit who abused. How convenient! What a lame excuse! I am not quoting out of context. You may re-read the 2006 Monty article many times for clarity and decide for yourself.
Dan Tas - I may live in Dubai (definitely not plush Downtown) but lived 36 years of my life in India before recently moving over to Dubai. I watch every ball of every match that India plays. And, almost every match that Australia plays, be it the Ashes or versus South Africa or Windies. I watch Aussie cricket simply because I love to watch the game played at the highest level by the best. But, am I not allowed to voice my opinion when I see something that is not cricket? Sledging, racial abuse, banter, and double standards thereof etc. are certainly not cricket.
'Stupid' by itself is not a racist taunt. But "Stupid Indian" is certainly racist. What if Symonds was called a "Stupid Ozzie"? Wouldn't that be racist too? If he was called a "monkey" it is not racism, though certainly it is 100% despicable behaviour.
Actually, the Sydney spectator who called Monty a "Stupid Indian" also went on to ask Monty if he could speak English. Monty lived all his life in the UK and could teach the Ozzie spectator some proper high school English. Aren't Indian call centres speaking English for almost the entire English world? The ignorant Sydney spectator ought to have done his homework before opening his mouth.
To all Ozzies: Mine was not intended to be a hate article. I am just echoing the probable views from an Indian perspective.
Through sheer performance on the cricket field alone, Ozzie cricketers demand and get a lot of respect amongst Indians and yours truly.
All this is not to support what the Indian spectator(s) did to Symo. Please, I am not the stereotypical Indian cricket fan that I think you have assumed me to be. I dont jump with patriotic joy and spirited passion when Sreesanth monkey faces somebody in the opposition camp. I feel ashamed that he does so. Similarly, I feel ashamed that some Indian spectators have stooped to such low levels as we have seen in the Symo episode.
Putting blind patriotism aside, I am just trying to impartially look at what is right and wrong... and why some behave strange when they get a dose of their own medicine. Got the picture?
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-18 05:16:57
Andrew -
You obvioulsy did not get my line on Ponting being a crybaby. I must admit that I erred in citing the 4th ODI instead of the 20-20 Semifinals. Ponting actually cried after losing the Semi finals to India. certainly cried excuses ...he cited injuries, lack of match practice etc. I wrote here that Symo has become a cry baby too, taking after Ponting.
Did you watch Symo collect the Man of the Series award after today's 7th ODI which Aus lost? He did not smile at all. He spoke in monosyllables. He looked a beaten man, morose, as if he was at a funeral, almost on the verge of breaking down. Why? Was the racial taunt still haunting him after 3 whole days? C'mon. Where's the tough Ozzie manhood that Symo otherwise symbolises?
So Peter Young said "Australian crowds always give English players plenty of banter and that's fine as long as it doesn't step over the appropriate boundary." So, what does this mean? He is approving of banter and abuse? Young is actually allowing banter and abuse from the crowd. He only doesnt want it to step over the boundary. And it is not that his cricketers are following him to the word. Banter continues from the Aus players within the boundary too. Ask any team that plays Aus.
Everything else that CA did (making announcements to the crowd, whispering or chiding them to behave or else etc...like a school teacher does), has been followed by the BCCI too. BCCI too have put up boards reminding crowds to behave themselves. Ok, Monty was taunted only in a tour match and ICC does not have to interfere. But, all that Young said was "the matter is 24 hours cold.." and that he could not catch the culprit who abused. How convenient! What a lame excuse! I am not quoting out of context. You may re-read the 2006 Monty article many times for clarity and decide for yourself.
Dan Tas - I may live in Dubai (definitely not plush Downtown) but lived 36 years of my life in India before recently moving over to Dubai. I watch every ball of every match that India plays. And, almost every match that Australia plays, be it the Ashes or versus South Africa or Windies. I watch Aussie cricket simply because I love to watch the game played at the highest level by the best. But, am I not allowed to voice my opinion when I see something that is not cricket? Sledging, racial abuse, banter, and double standards thereof etc. are certainly not cricket.
'Stupid' by itself is not a racist taunt. But "Stupid Indian" is certainly racist. What if Symonds was called a "Stupid Ozzie"? Wouldn't that be racist too? If he was called a "monkey" it is not racism, though certainly it is 100% despicable behaviour.
Actually, the Sydney spectator who called Monty a "Stupid Indian" also went on to ask Monty if he could speak English. Monty lived all his life in the UK and could teach the Ozzie spectator some proper high school English. Aren't Indian call centres speaking English for almost the entire English world? The ignorant Sydney spectator ought to have done his homework before opening his mouth.
To all Ozzies: Mine was not intended to be a hate article. I am just echoing the probable views from an Indian perspective.
Through sheer performance on the cricket field alone, Ozzie cricketers demand and get a lot of respect amongst Indians and yours truly.
All this is not to support what the Indian spectator(s) did to Symo. Please, I am not the stereotypical Indian cricket fan that I think you have assumed me to be. I dont jump with patriotic joy and spirited passion when Sreesanth monkey faces somebody in the opposition camp. I feel ashamed that he does so. Similarly, I feel ashamed that some Indian spectators have stooped to such low levels as we have seen in the Symo episode.
Putting blind patriotism aside, I am just trying to impartially look at what is right and wrong... and why some behave strange when they get a dose of their own medicine. Got the picture?
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-18 05:16:57
Andrew Mosey - I agree that Symonds said that he did not mind the crowds behaving the way they did, but was more disappointed that the authorities denied it ever happened.
Just compare this incident once more to the Monty episode. To my knowledge, Monty never reacted at all.
Symo wanted action by the BCCI and was seemingly upset that only denials were issued by BCCI. Though late, BCCI finally acted, (though ICC did so more swiftly) but Symo is still sore. You should have looked at his face while he accepted the Man of the Series award. The big man is still very very hurt. He scored a magnificient century immediately after being taunted, but the anger is still there. Why? Are the crowds back home in Oz any different? Is CA any different from BCCI?
Whilst BCCI (initially) denied the incident, CA was proud that it happened. Young implied that it(banter) happens all the time! Who is holier? Puny Monty took it in his stride, unaffected. Big Symo could not. Between the two, who appears a crybaby to you? You decide.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-18 05:46:19
Just compare this incident once more to the Monty episode. To my knowledge, Monty never reacted at all.
Symo wanted action by the BCCI and was seemingly upset that only denials were issued by BCCI. Though late, BCCI finally acted, (though ICC did so more swiftly) but Symo is still sore. You should have looked at his face while he accepted the Man of the Series award. The big man is still very very hurt. He scored a magnificient century immediately after being taunted, but the anger is still there. Why? Are the crowds back home in Oz any different? Is CA any different from BCCI?
Whilst BCCI (initially) denied the incident, CA was proud that it happened. Young implied that it(banter) happens all the time! Who is holier? Puny Monty took it in his stride, unaffected. Big Symo could not. Between the two, who appears a crybaby to you? You decide.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-18 05:46:19
There's a very clear line between banter and racial villification. Banter is usually humorous and good natured, something often enjoyed between Australian men. Racism is discrimination based on the colour of someone's skin.
Acting like a monkey because someone has African heritage and therefore must be from the jungle is clearly racism. Are monkey's not native in India too?
I didn't see Symonds pick up his man of the series award (was 4am), but would hazzard a guess to say he was unhappy due to scoring a golden duck and losing the game.
Again you say "Puny Monty took it in his stride, unaffected. Big Symo could not. Between the two, who appears a crybaby to you? You decide." yet provide no evidence of Symonds taking offence at the innapropriate taunts of the crowds. If he was to take offence he would most certainly be entitled to, yet from my observations he couldn't care less what some moron in the crowd does. When a public official like the BCCI accuses him of lying you can guarantee that he'll have a bit to say.
He has never stated that the crowd taunts hurt him, never stated any ill feeling in relation to this matter, and most certainly hasn't cried about it. Here's a few more words from him:
"Look, you have to be pretty thick-skinned to survive in the Australian dressing room, let alone out on the paddock.
"I am a pretty liberal sort of bloke. But racism is a big issue in world sport, not just cricket.
"It is a sensitive issue and guys have been made an example of in the past, but what do you do in this instance if it's coming from the crowd?
"I'm not allowed to comment on exactly what went on, but I'm not the most deadly serious bloke.
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-18 08:21:39
Acting like a monkey because someone has African heritage and therefore must be from the jungle is clearly racism. Are monkey's not native in India too?
I didn't see Symonds pick up his man of the series award (was 4am), but would hazzard a guess to say he was unhappy due to scoring a golden duck and losing the game.
Again you say "Puny Monty took it in his stride, unaffected. Big Symo could not. Between the two, who appears a crybaby to you? You decide." yet provide no evidence of Symonds taking offence at the innapropriate taunts of the crowds. If he was to take offence he would most certainly be entitled to, yet from my observations he couldn't care less what some moron in the crowd does. When a public official like the BCCI accuses him of lying you can guarantee that he'll have a bit to say.
He has never stated that the crowd taunts hurt him, never stated any ill feeling in relation to this matter, and most certainly hasn't cried about it. Here's a few more words from him:
"Look, you have to be pretty thick-skinned to survive in the Australian dressing room, let alone out on the paddock.
"I am a pretty liberal sort of bloke. But racism is a big issue in world sport, not just cricket.
"It is a sensitive issue and guys have been made an example of in the past, but what do you do in this instance if it's coming from the crowd?
"I'm not allowed to comment on exactly what went on, but I'm not the most deadly serious bloke.
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-18 08:21:39
as for 'puny' Monty not reacting at all, I don't see how you can compare apples with oranges. CA acted quickly and decisevly, whereas the BCCI ignored the issue, claimed it didn't happen, claimed that Symo made it up, and I heard they claimed the crowds were praying to a monkey god (can't find a source for this though).
BCCI have finally condemmed the actions, under pressure from CA and the ICC.
The Mumbai crowd has joined in for the 7th ODI - that's now three games on the trot, indicating this racial intolerance to be widespread across India.
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-18 10:55:08
BCCI have finally condemmed the actions, under pressure from CA and the ICC.
The Mumbai crowd has joined in for the 7th ODI - that's now three games on the trot, indicating this racial intolerance to be widespread across India.
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-18 10:55:08
Dear god Mahesh your bias is so overwhelming its disgusting.
Below is a quote from a statement from Indian board president, Sharad Pawar, and the chairman of Cricket Australia, Creagh O'Connor.
-------------
Indian board president, Sharad Pawar, and the chairman of Cricket Australia, Creagh O'Connor,
Spectators, team officials or players who are concerned about inappropriate behaviour of other people at venues should draw that behaviour to the attention of venue authorities immediately so that it can be assessed on the spot and, if appropriate, addressed immediately rather than being reviewed via media reports published well after the crowd has gone home."
------------------
Notice how the statement state that it is difficult to take action AFTER the event and that its easier to take action on the grounds. Pretty much the exact same response as Peter Young. Also Cricket Australia NEVER accused Monty of lying.
Mahesh never did Peter Young say he approved of Abuse, only Banter STOP misquoting. There is a big difference between Banter and Abuse.
If you openned your eyes you would notice Symonds is only upset when the local Indian Authorities said he lied and that it never happened. But hey Mahesh don't bother getting your facts straight.
Also do you expect Symonds to be happy after he lost a match, and scored a duck. Australian players take losing a match any match seriously, even if its a dead rubber. Maybe if the Indian players took their games as seriously as Australians they wouldn't have lost the series 4-2. I am not sure why you are calling a sportsman a cry baby for looking unhappy after losing a match, I would be upset if he was happy.
This is getting pathetic even from your low standards Mahesh.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-18 11:25:41
Below is a quote from a statement from Indian board president, Sharad Pawar, and the chairman of Cricket Australia, Creagh O'Connor.
-------------
Indian board president, Sharad Pawar, and the chairman of Cricket Australia, Creagh O'Connor,
Spectators, team officials or players who are concerned about inappropriate behaviour of other people at venues should draw that behaviour to the attention of venue authorities immediately so that it can be assessed on the spot and, if appropriate, addressed immediately rather than being reviewed via media reports published well after the crowd has gone home."
------------------
Notice how the statement state that it is difficult to take action AFTER the event and that its easier to take action on the grounds. Pretty much the exact same response as Peter Young. Also Cricket Australia NEVER accused Monty of lying.
Mahesh never did Peter Young say he approved of Abuse, only Banter STOP misquoting. There is a big difference between Banter and Abuse.
If you openned your eyes you would notice Symonds is only upset when the local Indian Authorities said he lied and that it never happened. But hey Mahesh don't bother getting your facts straight.
Also do you expect Symonds to be happy after he lost a match, and scored a duck. Australian players take losing a match any match seriously, even if its a dead rubber. Maybe if the Indian players took their games as seriously as Australians they wouldn't have lost the series 4-2. I am not sure why you are calling a sportsman a cry baby for looking unhappy after losing a match, I would be upset if he was happy.
This is getting pathetic even from your low standards Mahesh.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-18 11:25:41
Andrew,
It is interesting that you highlighted that particular passage from the joint statement because of the chronology of the events
The first time anybody heard of racial abuse incident at Baroda was when an article was published in the Australian.
Which begs the question - why was it not brought to the notice of the authorities when the incident happened?
In the aftermath, there was a lot of noise from the Australian camp including a penned article by Symonds and a statement daring the Indians to come over Down Under in the summer.
Given the fact that Symonds had been stirring the pot all through the series and the fact that the race row was being fanned by the media , how much credibility would you have associated with what was being said and reported?
I dont know about you, but when I heard of the whole race issue the first time, I assumed it to be an extension of the whole verbal/media war raged by Symonds against the Indians.
That aside, in the first instance when the issue was reported during a live match, the police took action and have charged the people accused under the Indian Penal System.
Also, the CA and the BCCI have issued a joint statement condemning racism.
I think that about puts a lid on the issue because of two things
1. The Indian crowd now is aware that there is a cost associated with any sort of racial vilification.
2. Action has been taken against the perpetrators within the gamut of the law.
Cheers
Posted by Homer on 2007-10-18 11:56:48
It is interesting that you highlighted that particular passage from the joint statement because of the chronology of the events
The first time anybody heard of racial abuse incident at Baroda was when an article was published in the Australian.
Which begs the question - why was it not brought to the notice of the authorities when the incident happened?
In the aftermath, there was a lot of noise from the Australian camp including a penned article by Symonds and a statement daring the Indians to come over Down Under in the summer.
Given the fact that Symonds had been stirring the pot all through the series and the fact that the race row was being fanned by the media , how much credibility would you have associated with what was being said and reported?
I dont know about you, but when I heard of the whole race issue the first time, I assumed it to be an extension of the whole verbal/media war raged by Symonds against the Indians.
That aside, in the first instance when the issue was reported during a live match, the police took action and have charged the people accused under the Indian Penal System.
Also, the CA and the BCCI have issued a joint statement condemning racism.
I think that about puts a lid on the issue because of two things
1. The Indian crowd now is aware that there is a cost associated with any sort of racial vilification.
2. Action has been taken against the perpetrators within the gamut of the law.
Cheers
Posted by Homer on 2007-10-18 11:56:48
Homer
I have no doubt that the BCCI have finally taken some action, mainly due to international pressure. Also a local authority should not just dismiss any complaints out of hand. At worst say "I will investigate" instead of accusing an International player of lying.
Also Mahesh have the guts to speak for yourself, you are not some diplomat from India speaking for the whole of India, making comments like:
"To all Ozzies: Mine was not intended to be a hate article. I am just echoing the probable views from an Indian perspective. "
Thats a load of rubbish, those are either your views otherwise don't repeat them, or quote a source.
Calling the opposing team's captain and players a cry baby is something you would expect in the school yard not from a grown man.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-18 12:33:26
I have no doubt that the BCCI have finally taken some action, mainly due to international pressure. Also a local authority should not just dismiss any complaints out of hand. At worst say "I will investigate" instead of accusing an International player of lying.
Also Mahesh have the guts to speak for yourself, you are not some diplomat from India speaking for the whole of India, making comments like:
"To all Ozzies: Mine was not intended to be a hate article. I am just echoing the probable views from an Indian perspective. "
Thats a load of rubbish, those are either your views otherwise don't repeat them, or quote a source.
Calling the opposing team's captain and players a cry baby is something you would expect in the school yard not from a grown man.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-18 12:33:26
Andrew,
I doubt if the action taken was because of international pressure. There was a clear cut case of people being out of line and there was evidence to support that. The action had to follow.
As regards the complaint, the first reports came from Australian newspapers. So there is no evidence that Symonds either contacted or consulted the local authorities. Neither did the CA.
Also, you have to factor in the history leading up to the event and the tone and tenor of the reporting in Australian newspapers.
Symonds had been bitching about everything Indian and quite frankly, there is a limit to how much can be passed off as harmless banter. Then the Australian newspapers took the tone that the Indians per se are racists.
On the back of this ( and I am in no way condoning racism), it is hard to take at face value the charges leveled by a player who has a history of bad mouthing the hosts especially in a "he said she said" situation which is reported by a third party who introduce their own biases ( Sreesanth had been variously described as a Hindu who is partly Christian, someone whose face needed to be smashed in etc).
The CA did not file a complaint, nothing came from the match referee, all we had was a player saying something more is a long rant. And there was nothing conclusive to prove that anything happened.
Why would the BCCI take action? Especially when the issue is race - religion/caste I understand, we in India have had to deal with problems related to these. But race?
No Indian has been strung up a tree because he was darker than the others, nor have there been separate lines for fair and dark skinned people.
As an Australian, you understand race issue better because you as a society has had to deal with it.. But India? And Symonds?
Cheers
Posted by Homer on 2007-10-18 12:56:34
I doubt if the action taken was because of international pressure. There was a clear cut case of people being out of line and there was evidence to support that. The action had to follow.
As regards the complaint, the first reports came from Australian newspapers. So there is no evidence that Symonds either contacted or consulted the local authorities. Neither did the CA.
Also, you have to factor in the history leading up to the event and the tone and tenor of the reporting in Australian newspapers.
Symonds had been bitching about everything Indian and quite frankly, there is a limit to how much can be passed off as harmless banter. Then the Australian newspapers took the tone that the Indians per se are racists.
On the back of this ( and I am in no way condoning racism), it is hard to take at face value the charges leveled by a player who has a history of bad mouthing the hosts especially in a "he said she said" situation which is reported by a third party who introduce their own biases ( Sreesanth had been variously described as a Hindu who is partly Christian, someone whose face needed to be smashed in etc).
The CA did not file a complaint, nothing came from the match referee, all we had was a player saying something more is a long rant. And there was nothing conclusive to prove that anything happened.
Why would the BCCI take action? Especially when the issue is race - religion/caste I understand, we in India have had to deal with problems related to these. But race?
No Indian has been strung up a tree because he was darker than the others, nor have there been separate lines for fair and dark skinned people.
As an Australian, you understand race issue better because you as a society has had to deal with it.. But India? And Symonds?
Cheers
Posted by Homer on 2007-10-18 12:56:34
Andrew: Obviously, when I say I am echoing the probable views..it means that I am just trying to do so, using my own opinions on the matter.
It was in English that I said that when cricket is not played in the true spirits of the game, and when some players dont like getting back what they are used to dishing out, I have a right to voice it out, don't I?
Reg. you wanting a source for Ponting being a crybaby.. (I had already discussed this at length earlier in this blog, but probably due to your selective reading, you may have missed): Ponting said this after Aus lost to India in the 20-20 SF:
"The lack of match practice for most of our batsmen cost us dear on Saturday. The openers Adam Gilchrist and Matthew Hayden have been doing such a great job chasing down totals,that the other batsmen had hardly got any time in the middle before Saturday’s game." (HOW LAME!!!!) "...and the injury to Michael Hussey was a big blow. We have been struggling with fitness right through the tournament, and viewers would notice the number of runners that have been used so far. This form of cricket is extremely intense, and the travel between games can also take its toll. Perhaps the organisers saw the duration of the game and underestimated how taxing it would be. However, with only one day between games and two-hour flights between venues there has hardly been any recovery time.
We did the maximum traveling in the tournament, having played games in Cape Town, Johannesburg and Durban over the last six days, which is why we were not as fit as we would have liked to be for a semifinal encounter." (Wow ! Raining excuses after losing? Ofcourse, Ozzies are not used to losing.. therefore there was no prepared speech ready!)
On the Symo episode, like Homer says, why should the BCCI take action upfront? CA did not when Monty was abused. CA said that they could not spot the miscreant amongst the huge crowd... and the matter was already cold. How convenient. Why the double standards??
If you think I am being biased, read my blog which started this all, clearly. I blamed the crowds in most of India (except some of South)
for lacking decorum and not having a proper knowledge of the game. Didn't I? Do you still think I am biased?
Hooligans are everywhere ... amonst Indians, amongst Aussies ... but when you complain and cry (yes, Symo is crying every day; sources? There are too many to quote; Symo squealed yesterday too) in India and not in your own backyard; cmon something is amiss here.
Your talk of Symo looking morose at the MoS award ceremony only because he scored a duck and lost the 7th match is plain bull. I have never seen Ozzies in that i-need-help mode. The crowd abuse is still hurting him. Really Bad. As much as I hate hooliganism, however cruel I may sound, payback is sometimes a great leveller.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-18 13:28:21
It was in English that I said that when cricket is not played in the true spirits of the game, and when some players dont like getting back what they are used to dishing out, I have a right to voice it out, don't I?
Reg. you wanting a source for Ponting being a crybaby.. (I had already discussed this at length earlier in this blog, but probably due to your selective reading, you may have missed): Ponting said this after Aus lost to India in the 20-20 SF:
"The lack of match practice for most of our batsmen cost us dear on Saturday. The openers Adam Gilchrist and Matthew Hayden have been doing such a great job chasing down totals,that the other batsmen had hardly got any time in the middle before Saturday’s game." (HOW LAME!!!!) "...and the injury to Michael Hussey was a big blow. We have been struggling with fitness right through the tournament, and viewers would notice the number of runners that have been used so far. This form of cricket is extremely intense, and the travel between games can also take its toll. Perhaps the organisers saw the duration of the game and underestimated how taxing it would be. However, with only one day between games and two-hour flights between venues there has hardly been any recovery time.
We did the maximum traveling in the tournament, having played games in Cape Town, Johannesburg and Durban over the last six days, which is why we were not as fit as we would have liked to be for a semifinal encounter." (Wow ! Raining excuses after losing? Ofcourse, Ozzies are not used to losing.. therefore there was no prepared speech ready!)
On the Symo episode, like Homer says, why should the BCCI take action upfront? CA did not when Monty was abused. CA said that they could not spot the miscreant amongst the huge crowd... and the matter was already cold. How convenient. Why the double standards??
If you think I am being biased, read my blog which started this all, clearly. I blamed the crowds in most of India (except some of South)
for lacking decorum and not having a proper knowledge of the game. Didn't I? Do you still think I am biased?
Hooligans are everywhere ... amonst Indians, amongst Aussies ... but when you complain and cry (yes, Symo is crying every day; sources? There are too many to quote; Symo squealed yesterday too) in India and not in your own backyard; cmon something is amiss here.
Your talk of Symo looking morose at the MoS award ceremony only because he scored a duck and lost the 7th match is plain bull. I have never seen Ozzies in that i-need-help mode. The crowd abuse is still hurting him. Really Bad. As much as I hate hooliganism, however cruel I may sound, payback is sometimes a great leveller.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-18 13:28:21
Mahesh, it's easy to say there are too many sources to quote.. how about quoting one or two? The first and last Australian player to cry was Kim Hughes, and none of us want a repeat of that. For you to accuse an Australian cricketer of crying in your first blog, you'd want to have some evidence to back it up. Perhaps avoiding racial issues and blogging on cricket may be a good first step.
By your accounts Roy was mono-syllabic and not smiling when receiving the MOS award. Consider the contrast of scoring a golden duck and losing the game with being presented a trophy for performance.. sounds a bit hollow to me. No wonder he was not jumping for joy.
With regards to CA's reaction to Monty's accusations they did everything possible as Andrew pointed out above. They adopted a zero tolerance policy, encouraged the crowd to 'dob in a yob', and promised life bans for anyone acting with racist bias in the crowds. What additional measures would you suggest? Armed guards in every third chair trained to shoot at the first sign on racism?
---
Beer and Sport Blog
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-18 14:42:20
By your accounts Roy was mono-syllabic and not smiling when receiving the MOS award. Consider the contrast of scoring a golden duck and losing the game with being presented a trophy for performance.. sounds a bit hollow to me. No wonder he was not jumping for joy.
With regards to CA's reaction to Monty's accusations they did everything possible as Andrew pointed out above. They adopted a zero tolerance policy, encouraged the crowd to 'dob in a yob', and promised life bans for anyone acting with racist bias in the crowds. What additional measures would you suggest? Armed guards in every third chair trained to shoot at the first sign on racism?
---
Beer and Sport Blog
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-18 14:42:20
You live in Dubai, Mahesh?
Malcolm Speed, now he's not your next door neighbour is he? You're not the BCCI secret weapon on the ground there by any chance, getting into Mal's ear and promising favours for his continued inertia? No, Malcolm has displayed too much talent in that respect and requires no assistance.
"Stupid Indian" or "Stupid Ozzie" is not racist. If I was called a "Stupid Ozzie" all I'd complain about was the total lack of imagination shown by the caller.
Posted by Dan Tas on 2007-10-18 15:05:31
Malcolm Speed, now he's not your next door neighbour is he? You're not the BCCI secret weapon on the ground there by any chance, getting into Mal's ear and promising favours for his continued inertia? No, Malcolm has displayed too much talent in that respect and requires no assistance.
"Stupid Indian" or "Stupid Ozzie" is not racist. If I was called a "Stupid Ozzie" all I'd complain about was the total lack of imagination shown by the caller.
Posted by Dan Tas on 2007-10-18 15:05:31
Interesting enough the Mumbai crowd was shouting "Aussies Suck", does that fall under racist behaviour according to you Mahesh?
Also now we see your true colours Mahesh, you approve of Abuse when its against Australia. Good to see you finally speaking your heart, your opposition to abuse is only when its convienant to you. So your only problem with abuse is when its against Indian players.
Tell you what Mahesh go do some reading of the Monty incident and actually compare the two events they are almost identical to a fault, except in Australia it didn't happen again, while in India the whole crowd is doing it.
But then again what am I thinking Indians can't be racist because they are not white...
Lucky I am not white then huh, cause then I can start up the racial insults as well.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-18 15:39:09
Also now we see your true colours Mahesh, you approve of Abuse when its against Australia. Good to see you finally speaking your heart, your opposition to abuse is only when its convienant to you. So your only problem with abuse is when its against Indian players.
Tell you what Mahesh go do some reading of the Monty incident and actually compare the two events they are almost identical to a fault, except in Australia it didn't happen again, while in India the whole crowd is doing it.
But then again what am I thinking Indians can't be racist because they are not white...
Lucky I am not white then huh, cause then I can start up the racial insults as well.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-18 15:39:09
"Indians can't be racist because they are not white" - is that a quote from the PCB or ICC in Darryl's case ;)
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-18 15:46:53
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-18 15:46:53
Oh Gawd... I've just read every word of this thread and am left bewildered by the whole thing.
NUMBER 1.
How is being called a 'monkey' derogative to Symmonds? Monkeys are from Africa and he's from Birmingham UK. He plays for Australia - even more bizarre!
NUMBER 2.
'Monkey-face'? what the hell is that all about? Is that what a brown-skinned person can call another brown-skinned person? What's it to do with? Being from Africa? Eating bananas?
I fair dinkumly do not get this so-called racism as JC pointed out. Put it this way, I'm know a LOT of white-skinned blokes who resemble monkeys, get me drift.
NUMBER 3.
It's a complete crock to say that racism is between differing skin colours. Absolute carp I'm afraid. Scots and Irish, Pakis and Indians, Poms and Taffs, Kiwis and Aussies, Queenslanders and NSWelshmen, Ford and Holden, ain't no difference guys.
NUMBER 4.
I've been called many things in my lifetime - 'useless Aussie bludger', 'stupid pr*ck', fat Pommie b*stard, beer-swilling faggott... don't upset me, besides most of these descriptive terms are true... Like Dan Tas alludes to and I state once again; they're all terms of endearment.
And Number 5 is my summary:
If a minority of Indians cricket go-ers want to bizarrely make 'monkey noises' at a barely brown guy from a white-skinned team who was born in the UK of Jamaican parents, then let 'em - it makes absolutely no sense at all to most people! In Australia if you have an ordinary game you'll get the old Fourex stuffed in your mit with a bout of "better luck next time old son" but if you bowl or bat bad in the subcontinent you apparently have your house torched by these rabid weirdos AND if you fail as a coach, you end up dead! Guess which 'race' comes out on top with that scenario.
Posted by virtualgaz on 2007-10-18 20:13:48
NUMBER 1.
How is being called a 'monkey' derogative to Symmonds? Monkeys are from Africa and he's from Birmingham UK. He plays for Australia - even more bizarre!
NUMBER 2.
'Monkey-face'? what the hell is that all about? Is that what a brown-skinned person can call another brown-skinned person? What's it to do with? Being from Africa? Eating bananas?
I fair dinkumly do not get this so-called racism as JC pointed out. Put it this way, I'm know a LOT of white-skinned blokes who resemble monkeys, get me drift.
NUMBER 3.
It's a complete crock to say that racism is between differing skin colours. Absolute carp I'm afraid. Scots and Irish, Pakis and Indians, Poms and Taffs, Kiwis and Aussies, Queenslanders and NSWelshmen, Ford and Holden, ain't no difference guys.
NUMBER 4.
I've been called many things in my lifetime - 'useless Aussie bludger', 'stupid pr*ck', fat Pommie b*stard, beer-swilling faggott... don't upset me, besides most of these descriptive terms are true... Like Dan Tas alludes to and I state once again; they're all terms of endearment.
And Number 5 is my summary:
If a minority of Indians cricket go-ers want to bizarrely make 'monkey noises' at a barely brown guy from a white-skinned team who was born in the UK of Jamaican parents, then let 'em - it makes absolutely no sense at all to most people! In Australia if you have an ordinary game you'll get the old Fourex stuffed in your mit with a bout of "better luck next time old son" but if you bowl or bat bad in the subcontinent you apparently have your house torched by these rabid weirdos AND if you fail as a coach, you end up dead! Guess which 'race' comes out on top with that scenario.
Posted by virtualgaz on 2007-10-18 20:13:48
That was the most one-eyed and biased article I've ever read in my life. I thought JC was a flag-swinging warrior but to call Symonds "soft" and accuse him of crying when in fact the man was GAGGED but the ICC, is the height of selective naivete.
I find it paticularly offensive that you link to an article saying the BCCI "swung to action" when (until yesterday) have been doing their best to sweep the matter under the rug. Even the article you linked to says:
"But the BCCI is not happy with how the matter has panned out, saying there is no evidence."
NO EVIDENCE?? I'm sorry but even if you ignore the player's and captain's complaints, even if you ignore the reporters in the crowds who witnessed it first hand, surely you CANT IGNORE THE BLOODY UMPIRE. Swung to action???
Apparently the BCCI have NOW released a joint statement (just yesterday) saying that racism has no place in cricket, but Symonds has been racially attacked this entire series. There's been plenty of evidence, I'm afraid its too little MUCH too late.
In a nutshell: This article smacks of sour grapes.
Surely being convincingly beaten in a home ODI series after winning the Twenty20 world cup (if it deserves such a title) must have hurt, but I don't want to read bile like this on a blog I respect such as "cricket-blog.com".
Shame on you. I hope JC takes back the reigns soon.
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-18 21:08:20
I find it paticularly offensive that you link to an article saying the BCCI "swung to action" when (until yesterday) have been doing their best to sweep the matter under the rug. Even the article you linked to says:
"But the BCCI is not happy with how the matter has panned out, saying there is no evidence."
NO EVIDENCE?? I'm sorry but even if you ignore the player's and captain's complaints, even if you ignore the reporters in the crowds who witnessed it first hand, surely you CANT IGNORE THE BLOODY UMPIRE. Swung to action???
Apparently the BCCI have NOW released a joint statement (just yesterday) saying that racism has no place in cricket, but Symonds has been racially attacked this entire series. There's been plenty of evidence, I'm afraid its too little MUCH too late.
In a nutshell: This article smacks of sour grapes.
Surely being convincingly beaten in a home ODI series after winning the Twenty20 world cup (if it deserves such a title) must have hurt, but I don't want to read bile like this on a blog I respect such as "cricket-blog.com".
Shame on you. I hope JC takes back the reigns soon.
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-18 21:08:20
Mahesh, what Ponting said after the T20 defeat to India is all true. He also had praise for India's performance, but you've neglected to mention that. It was an honest observation, yet you've taken the negatives and spun it into a "crybaby" thing.
Ponting's first press conference in India was all praise for India's T20 win, how they deserved to win the tournament and how well the young guns stood up. After Australia lost in the fourth ODI, he was all praise for India. After Australia lost last night in the seventh ODI, he was all praise for Kartik's bowling. After both games, he acknowledged how it was great for the crowd to see such an entertaining game. Hardly being a crybaby.
Your bias beggars belief.
This blog reflects so poorly on you, Mahesh.
Posted by stumps on 2007-10-18 21:18:59
Ponting's first press conference in India was all praise for India's T20 win, how they deserved to win the tournament and how well the young guns stood up. After Australia lost in the fourth ODI, he was all praise for India. After Australia lost last night in the seventh ODI, he was all praise for Kartik's bowling. After both games, he acknowledged how it was great for the crowd to see such an entertaining game. Hardly being a crybaby.
Your bias beggars belief.
This blog reflects so poorly on you, Mahesh.
Posted by stumps on 2007-10-18 21:18:59
Losing 2-4 to Aus is a victory in a way. Most of us thought it was going to be a 7-0 or a 6-0 sweep by the Ozzies.
Dan - Ok..'Stupid Indian' is not racist... but the Sydney spectator (who also taunted Monty whether he could speak English or he reqd translation in an Indian lang) did not have any imagination or for that matter any general knowledge at all.. i.e Indians speak English as well as anybody in the world. Sadly, the unimaginative, probably-insufficiently-read Sydney spectator did not know that fact.
Andrew - You said that though the Symo and Monty incidents were similar, there was no repeat incident in Australia.
Graeme Smith warned even before the Monty incident, that there is a lot of crowd abuse in Australia and Monty will definitely be targetted by the crowd. Monty's was not a first and last case in Aus. There was a lot of abuse by the Oz crowd during the SAfrican tour there that preceded the Ashes. No wonder Smith mentioned that. (Source: it is in the same article about the Monty incident)
Agree that Indian crowds can be worse than Aus ever was. In fact they have been during this series.
All that I am saying is we have to be balanced and call a spade a spade wherever anything happens... or whoever is to blame. There is no use being stupidly patriotic and supporting your country even if it indulges in nonsense. Indian crowds did indulge in nonsense in the past fortnight, but there were more noise made by Ponting and Symo in the media than anybody else.. instead of ignoring the mad crowds in a dignified manner. That would have held the Ozzie team in higher esteem and light. Instead, they squealed as if their house is in order. You are made of the same material, mate. Even stevens. Okay, not exactly, but almost there.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-19 17:12:38
Dan - Ok..'Stupid Indian' is not racist... but the Sydney spectator (who also taunted Monty whether he could speak English or he reqd translation in an Indian lang) did not have any imagination or for that matter any general knowledge at all.. i.e Indians speak English as well as anybody in the world. Sadly, the unimaginative, probably-insufficiently-read Sydney spectator did not know that fact.
Andrew - You said that though the Symo and Monty incidents were similar, there was no repeat incident in Australia.
Graeme Smith warned even before the Monty incident, that there is a lot of crowd abuse in Australia and Monty will definitely be targetted by the crowd. Monty's was not a first and last case in Aus. There was a lot of abuse by the Oz crowd during the SAfrican tour there that preceded the Ashes. No wonder Smith mentioned that. (Source: it is in the same article about the Monty incident)
Agree that Indian crowds can be worse than Aus ever was. In fact they have been during this series.
All that I am saying is we have to be balanced and call a spade a spade wherever anything happens... or whoever is to blame. There is no use being stupidly patriotic and supporting your country even if it indulges in nonsense. Indian crowds did indulge in nonsense in the past fortnight, but there were more noise made by Ponting and Symo in the media than anybody else.. instead of ignoring the mad crowds in a dignified manner. That would have held the Ozzie team in higher esteem and light. Instead, they squealed as if their house is in order. You are made of the same material, mate. Even stevens. Okay, not exactly, but almost there.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-19 17:12:38
Was their a repeat to the insult to Monty in any of the following games Mahesh. No there wasn't. Unlike India where the racial abuse has continued over several matches.
So in Australia with Monty it was ONE idiot. In India with Symonds it was a group of idiots in several locations over different parts of the country. Interesting huh. We also find at the same time racial abuse happening in Pakistan.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 19:32:19
So in Australia with Monty it was ONE idiot. In India with Symonds it was a group of idiots in several locations over different parts of the country. Interesting huh. We also find at the same time racial abuse happening in Pakistan.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 19:32:19
Hey Mahesh, hate to burst your bubble but the vast majority of unsolicited calls I've had from Indian call centres were verging on unintelligible.
A typical call starts with their spiel followed by "what?". And that continues until you get frustrated and just say no thanks and hang up.
This will fix it though.
https://www.donotcall.gov.au/
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 20:11:56
A typical call starts with their spiel followed by "what?". And that continues until you get frustrated and just say no thanks and hang up.
This will fix it though.
https://www.donotcall.gov.au/
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 20:11:56
Hanuman - On your call centre experience... unfortunately, that is the best available these days. This is the bane of the civilisation we live in at present. We have to make do with what is available. Sadly, the rest can be worse!
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-20 03:35:30
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-20 03:35:30
Cricket fans in my country are crazy. They torch houses of cricketers if they do not perform. They make them feel like Gods if they do perform. Most of it has happened because of over the top media attention.
The way the news is presented on television is so pathetic that I have stopped watching most Indian news channels. Most of the news is devoid of reasons and bordering on emotional reactions of the reporter.
Over emotional and non-thinking crowds (which is ever present in every country) tends to react in a foolish way. One could give excuses that Aussies do the same, or others do the same. The fact is that it is not about Aussies or Indians or English. It is about stupidity bug in the brains of some people in every country.
The intelligensia should try and discriminate and not blame the entire country for such instances. Cricketer like Steve Waugh is loved a lot by many indians, maybe more so than many of the indian players.
I used to really like watching Micheal Holding, Joel Garner and Andy Roberts. And loved the way Vivian Richards used to bat. Even if Indian cricketers were being battered by them.
It is a game, let it be a game. Play and comment sportingly.
Thanks.
Posted by NR Indian on 2007-10-20 05:28:35
The way the news is presented on television is so pathetic that I have stopped watching most Indian news channels. Most of the news is devoid of reasons and bordering on emotional reactions of the reporter.
Over emotional and non-thinking crowds (which is ever present in every country) tends to react in a foolish way. One could give excuses that Aussies do the same, or others do the same. The fact is that it is not about Aussies or Indians or English. It is about stupidity bug in the brains of some people in every country.
The intelligensia should try and discriminate and not blame the entire country for such instances. Cricketer like Steve Waugh is loved a lot by many indians, maybe more so than many of the indian players.
I used to really like watching Micheal Holding, Joel Garner and Andy Roberts. And loved the way Vivian Richards used to bat. Even if Indian cricketers were being battered by them.
It is a game, let it be a game. Play and comment sportingly.
Thanks.
Posted by NR Indian on 2007-10-20 05:28:35
People...
About the whole "monkey" thing,
really.. it's all a big cultural misunderstanding. I know this sounds like a canned BCCI excuse.
But it really is.
Kids, adults in India all use the 'monkey' word to refer to someone who is being stupid, annoying, or irritating..
This monkey word referring to someone a darker skin from Africa is completely unknown to Indians.. I can tell you that..
At the same time, I am sure the mumbai crowds picked up on the fact that calling Symmonds a monkey seems to get under the Aussie skin.
Presto.. the obnoxious mumbai crowd behaviour
I feel terrible for Symmonds.
THis is too much of a burden for him
Posted by Dev on 2007-10-21 07:13:39
About the whole "monkey" thing,
really.. it's all a big cultural misunderstanding. I know this sounds like a canned BCCI excuse.
But it really is.
Kids, adults in India all use the 'monkey' word to refer to someone who is being stupid, annoying, or irritating..
This monkey word referring to someone a darker skin from Africa is completely unknown to Indians.. I can tell you that..
At the same time, I am sure the mumbai crowds picked up on the fact that calling Symmonds a monkey seems to get under the Aussie skin.
Presto.. the obnoxious mumbai crowd behaviour
I feel terrible for Symmonds.
THis is too much of a burden for him
Posted by Dev on 2007-10-21 07:13:39
Dev, that it complete and utter BS.
Your denial and failure to accept it was racist is India's main problem.
If calling someone a "stupid Indian" is racist calling someone a "monkey" is too.
The thing that gets under our skin is your failure to even believe you can be racist and all the denials and apologist theories to explain it.
If the Aussie crowds starting chanting monkey noises at Sree in Melbourne, will you see that as racist?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-21 13:42:07
Your denial and failure to accept it was racist is India's main problem.
If calling someone a "stupid Indian" is racist calling someone a "monkey" is too.
The thing that gets under our skin is your failure to even believe you can be racist and all the denials and apologist theories to explain it.
If the Aussie crowds starting chanting monkey noises at Sree in Melbourne, will you see that as racist?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-21 13:42:07
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Posted by xiaobao on 2011-08-12 18:41:13
Symo has single handedly (largely, though with significant support from Hogg) saved the blushes for Australia on at least 2 or 3 occasions in this ODI series ending today.
He has been in demolition mode in India. While facing the Indian bowlers, that is. Whist facing a taunting Indian crowd, he turned a crybaby, like Ponting did when Australia lost the 4th ODI.
The crowd's behaviour was despicable, to say the least. While
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Posted by wts30286 on 2011-11-16 15:39:12
He has been in demolition mode in India. While facing the Indian bowlers, that is. Whist facing a taunting Indian crowd, he turned a crybaby, like Ponting did when Australia lost the 4th ODI.
The crowd's behaviour was despicable, to say the least. While
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