Racist taunts were actually prayers to a monkey god
While the racist taunts at Vadodara and Nagpur reveal an ugly side of cricket, you just have to laugh at this interpretation of the Andrew Symonds monkey taunts:
It has now been explained as a cultural misunderstanding. The crowds at Vadodara and Nagpur weren't being racist, they were worshipping the monkey god, Hanuman. Symonds wasn't vilified, the local police commissioner CP Thakur says, he just happened to wander down to the boundary as the crowd at Vadodara indulged in some impromptu prayer.Unless Andrew Symonds is the monkey god Hanuman, I'm at a loss to explain why they suddenly started chanting as he took the field. Now I often try to finish my blog posts with a funny punchline but racking my brains this afternoon, I honestly can't think of anything funnier than the excerpt above."Symonds mistook their chanting for racial abuse because he couldn't understand what they're saying. Obviously, he can't understand Gujarati and Hindi languages," Thakur said.
| Posted by JC on Thu 18 Oct |  110 comments |
Thanks JC, it all makes sense now.
Little known too is the fact that the term "wanker" is actually an Aboriginal word meaning "spiritual hunting god". Now if only that had been public knowledge when Richard Hadlee was coming in to bowl at the MCG all those years ago.
Posted by Dan Tas on 2007-10-18 20:03:32
Little known too is the fact that the term "wanker" is actually an Aboriginal word meaning "spiritual hunting god". Now if only that had been public knowledge when Richard Hadlee was coming in to bowl at the MCG all those years ago.
Posted by Dan Tas on 2007-10-18 20:03:32
Tell yer what (and I'm no expert on this matter), the Pommy soccer crowds have pretty much got a monopoly on this kind of thing I believe. Someone more educated in this sport than I may be be able to enlighten us to popular chants of abuse for this calendar year...
Posted by virtualgaz on 2007-10-18 20:32:13
Posted by virtualgaz on 2007-10-18 20:32:13
During the next match all must remember to chant that he is not MONKEY , that will solve the problem forever.
Posted by valmik soni on 2007-10-18 21:05:20
Posted by valmik soni on 2007-10-18 21:05:20
LOL, Andrew, we recently bought a Monkey t-shirt for my brother-in-law for his birthday (in fact, we haven't even given it to him yet but no fear of him reading this blog and spoiling the surprise).
Posted by JC on 2007-10-18 22:43:42
Posted by JC on 2007-10-18 22:43:42
I really cant see how calling someone a 'monkey' can be termed as cracial abuse. I can accept the fact that they crowd were haressing the player, which should not of course happen. If this is the case, I fully support the australian complaint.
However, I can see huge similarities between this and how the Australian crowds treat Muralitharan everytime he tours there. Similar to Symonds in Australia, the home crowd in Australa attempt to break the concentration of a potential threat with haressment.
If Australians are complaining about this incident, I sincerely hope that Muralitharan will be given a better reception when he comes there in a few weeks tim.
Posted by inabox on 2007-10-19 03:19:45
However, I can see huge similarities between this and how the Australian crowds treat Muralitharan everytime he tours there. Similar to Symonds in Australia, the home crowd in Australa attempt to break the concentration of a potential threat with haressment.
If Australians are complaining about this incident, I sincerely hope that Muralitharan will be given a better reception when he comes there in a few weeks tim.
Posted by inabox on 2007-10-19 03:19:45
competetive sledging n verbals "digs" at another team / player is all ok, so in princicple i agree with that arguement... however, when this crosses a line and becomes racial then this is absolutely not accpetable anywhere... i dont beleive the Hanuman excuse for one second, only the prejudiced and ignorant could possibly entertain this... could it possibly be that Indians also have a racist minority?
Accept it exists, learn from it, and do not accept it or excuse it ... EVER!
Posted by Robin (UK) on 2007-10-19 06:14:48
Accept it exists, learn from it, and do not accept it or excuse it ... EVER!
Posted by Robin (UK) on 2007-10-19 06:14:48
Believe me these boys were not so organised as to order monkey masks for the off chance that they get to harass Symo.
It is Dussehra on 21st October and every street in India has these skits going with celebration of our beloved monkey god...hence the readily available masks all over...
I'm sure the crowds tried to break his concentration...not very different from the treatment Panesar got in Oz.
In the end they both wrenched out warm respect and affection due to their skills...Symo will have to wait a while till it seeps in nicely that he whupped us...
Posted by Tail spin on 2007-10-19 06:51:58
It is Dussehra on 21st October and every street in India has these skits going with celebration of our beloved monkey god...hence the readily available masks all over...
I'm sure the crowds tried to break his concentration...not very different from the treatment Panesar got in Oz.
In the end they both wrenched out warm respect and affection due to their skills...Symo will have to wait a while till it seeps in nicely that he whupped us...
Posted by Tail spin on 2007-10-19 06:51:58
Don't know which Ashes series you guys were watching but the one I was at Monty was been worshipped by the Australian and English supporters in the crowd.
It's hard to know where Giles bashing ended and Monty praise began as it's a thin line indeed, but there were cheers from everywhere when Monty brought the drinks on in Brisbane..
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-19 08:27:05
It's hard to know where Giles bashing ended and Monty praise began as it's a thin line indeed, but there were cheers from everywhere when Monty brought the drinks on in Brisbane..
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-19 08:27:05
The most hypocritical thing I saw on TV about this was Jimmy Maher coming out wanting an apology for the 'racist taunts'. I have a recollection of Jimmy saying to the media after Queensland won its first Sheffield Shield; 'we are as happy as a Valiant full of Coons'. So, Jimmy if you’re reading this how about a public apology for your misdemeanour.
Posted by Nige on 2007-10-19 08:52:11
Posted by Nige on 2007-10-19 08:52:11
I remember that interview with Jimmy Maher too, boy that was a long time ago. He was totally legless, off his face, made a fool of himself - and got burned for it. I'm sure he made an apology at the time once he'd sobered up and was told what he did (which he probably doesn't remember).
Posted by JC on 2007-10-19 09:31:25
Posted by JC on 2007-10-19 09:31:25
Andrew, I was at the Gabba on day one - Monty was warming up before the start of play and some guy was hitting him high balls for catching practice. A cheer went up everytime the ball went up. I was devastated and disbelieving that they selected Giles over Monty as was all the guys around me in the crowd. The first of many English missteps that summer.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-19 09:33:25
Posted by JC on 2007-10-19 09:33:25
Hi guys, a lot has been said on this blog about Mahesh's article.I am an Indian too and I want to say a few things. Mahesh, you have no right to claim that you represent the "Indian perspective"...your comments stand for only you individually, we can voice our own opinion, thank you very much.
For starters, the behaviour of Indian crowds towards Symmonds is digusting, and inexcusable. No question about that. It just underlines what I have always believed...there are racist assholes everywhere...India is no exception. And I agree totally that racist taunts coming from non-whites are not considered nearly as from offensive as similar ones coming from whites. This also is unacceptable. In fact, I believe that this is common in all walks of life...just look at the stand up comedy...how many black comedians out there have their whole careers based on making white jokes...on the other hand how many white comedians do you see making fun of blacks? The cannot...they will be labeled racists...this is a huge double stadard in our society, one that I think will take time to fade away.
Having said this, I must say that Aussies have gotten away with murder many times, when it comes to racist taunts and some really poor on-field behavior. I am the biggest fan of Glen McGrath's bowling...I believe he is one of the best the world has ever seen...but I think he is probably the most poorly behaved cricketer ever. It is not "friendly banter" when you yell and jump after being hit for a six, and mouth obscenities at the batsman just because you were hit for a six. In my opinion, McGrath was never punished enough for this...he got away with it more often than not. I might add here that Sreesanth's behavior is deplorable, and I do not condone it at all. I think it has to stop. There is a line and it can't be crossed.
Growing up as a huge sports fan, I always looked up to people like Kapil Dev, Courtney Walsh, Mark Taylor, Viv Richards (he was arrogant but respectful of his opposition, a very rare quality), Curtley Ambrose and wanted to have the same elegance and spirit when I grew up and had a career...not in cricket but in anything I did in my life. I did not want to be Dennis Lillie, Waqar Younis, Shane Warne...I wanted to be Pat Rafter (tennis) because of his elegant demeanor, his impeccable modesty, his great sportsman spirit. Rafter is Australian, I might add. That is why sport is so great. It unifies the world. It sets standards for the society. That is why actions like behavior of Indian crowds towards Symmonds, behavior of Australian crowds towards Panesar, and on-field antics of McGrath and Sreesanth should not be condoned...ever.
Thanks all for your time.
Posted by Jeet on 2007-10-19 09:50:07
For starters, the behaviour of Indian crowds towards Symmonds is digusting, and inexcusable. No question about that. It just underlines what I have always believed...there are racist assholes everywhere...India is no exception. And I agree totally that racist taunts coming from non-whites are not considered nearly as from offensive as similar ones coming from whites. This also is unacceptable. In fact, I believe that this is common in all walks of life...just look at the stand up comedy...how many black comedians out there have their whole careers based on making white jokes...on the other hand how many white comedians do you see making fun of blacks? The cannot...they will be labeled racists...this is a huge double stadard in our society, one that I think will take time to fade away.
Having said this, I must say that Aussies have gotten away with murder many times, when it comes to racist taunts and some really poor on-field behavior. I am the biggest fan of Glen McGrath's bowling...I believe he is one of the best the world has ever seen...but I think he is probably the most poorly behaved cricketer ever. It is not "friendly banter" when you yell and jump after being hit for a six, and mouth obscenities at the batsman just because you were hit for a six. In my opinion, McGrath was never punished enough for this...he got away with it more often than not. I might add here that Sreesanth's behavior is deplorable, and I do not condone it at all. I think it has to stop. There is a line and it can't be crossed.
Growing up as a huge sports fan, I always looked up to people like Kapil Dev, Courtney Walsh, Mark Taylor, Viv Richards (he was arrogant but respectful of his opposition, a very rare quality), Curtley Ambrose and wanted to have the same elegance and spirit when I grew up and had a career...not in cricket but in anything I did in my life. I did not want to be Dennis Lillie, Waqar Younis, Shane Warne...I wanted to be Pat Rafter (tennis) because of his elegant demeanor, his impeccable modesty, his great sportsman spirit. Rafter is Australian, I might add. That is why sport is so great. It unifies the world. It sets standards for the society. That is why actions like behavior of Indian crowds towards Symmonds, behavior of Australian crowds towards Panesar, and on-field antics of McGrath and Sreesanth should not be condoned...ever.
Thanks all for your time.
Posted by Jeet on 2007-10-19 09:50:07
When the shouting dies down, let's not forget one basic thing - Andrew Symonds and the Australians abused Indian hospitality.
Let's not forget that Alfonso de Albuquerque (the first modern European in India) was treated extremely well when he arrived in Calicut in Kerala in 1496. However, they considered the Indians (who were clearly wealthier and culturally superior) as inferior.
Despite the generous welcome by the Samudri (the king), they attacked Indian villages and even killed a few people to see how they bled(!), what resistance they would put up, to observe the reaction of the Indians.
Don't you think that's bizarre? Well that's how all Europeans, except for a few learned Russians or Germans, behaved when in India. For them, it was hard to believe a darker race could have such high intellect, such prosperous cities and villages, such advanced social norms and such a high civilisation.
The basic nature of the European race is to look down upon Indians. They wouldn't believe for a second that the Indians could be their equals, let alone be superior.
That colonial hangover continues. While it's not easy to subjugate people these days, they do it in other ways. The media is one big tool. Sledging on the cricket field is another.
When the Americans shoot dead 5-year old boys and girls at point blank range in Iraq to terrorise the local population, they are acting no different from the slave traders who raided peaceful villages in Africa and captured millions of free people and sold them into slavery.
The black, brown vs white divide is not to be bridged easily. We are both different races. When crowds heckle Muralidharan, they desensitise themseleves first and then picture the foreign player as alien, not one of them.
It's easy for Australian crowds to heckle Panesar and others like him who are not white because they think, "These people are different; they eat curry; we eat elaborate seven-course meals; we are white, they are dark etc."
It's the reason why white Australians won't give you directions if you are lost in Sydney or Melbourne. They'll tell you they don't know even if the street is just round the corner. They don't care if you are with family and kids and that you are facing a tough time. They just don't care because you are differently coloured. It's that simple.
Like Kipling said a century and more ago: "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall mee." Of course, I'm only partially quoting him, as he goes on to say that the two shall meet at "God's great judgement feet". Or something to that effect.
My point is that the more we play each other, the more enmity breeds. Yes, India and Pakistan don't play with the same rancour anymore after being bitter enemies for 60 years. However, that's because the 2004 series showed us that basically we are the same people divided by religion and an artifical border. We are of the same genetic stock.
But we can't say the same thing about the Australians or the English. In South Africa in the early 1980s, a little black girl's life ebbed away because she could not get blood stored in the blood bank because it belonged to white donors. The laws of the then apartheid government said you could not mix blood of different races! Do a google search, you might find that story somewhere.
The reason I'm saying all this is that when the white countries play India and Pakistan, there's so much rancour invloved. It's not a healthy rivalry like the Ashes series.
So let's split and create a seaparate league. Bring in the Windies and the cricket world is going to be lot fairer (no pun intended) than it is today.
It would be a new World Cricket Council that'll have India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, and many more. We could work on the Windies to join us though they are heavily influenced by the British who give them aid, so they may stay away. But once their cricket systems become starved of funds, they'll come around. Trust me. They can't keep visiting Australia and England all the time to bring in revenue.
If we can't co-exist peacefully, lets go our separate ways. Sport is meant to be fun, uplifting, but cricket's beginning to leave a bitter after taste.
Jai Hind
Posted by Deviantman on 2007-10-19 11:10:12
Let's not forget that Alfonso de Albuquerque (the first modern European in India) was treated extremely well when he arrived in Calicut in Kerala in 1496. However, they considered the Indians (who were clearly wealthier and culturally superior) as inferior.
Despite the generous welcome by the Samudri (the king), they attacked Indian villages and even killed a few people to see how they bled(!), what resistance they would put up, to observe the reaction of the Indians.
Don't you think that's bizarre? Well that's how all Europeans, except for a few learned Russians or Germans, behaved when in India. For them, it was hard to believe a darker race could have such high intellect, such prosperous cities and villages, such advanced social norms and such a high civilisation.
The basic nature of the European race is to look down upon Indians. They wouldn't believe for a second that the Indians could be their equals, let alone be superior.
That colonial hangover continues. While it's not easy to subjugate people these days, they do it in other ways. The media is one big tool. Sledging on the cricket field is another.
When the Americans shoot dead 5-year old boys and girls at point blank range in Iraq to terrorise the local population, they are acting no different from the slave traders who raided peaceful villages in Africa and captured millions of free people and sold them into slavery.
The black, brown vs white divide is not to be bridged easily. We are both different races. When crowds heckle Muralidharan, they desensitise themseleves first and then picture the foreign player as alien, not one of them.
It's easy for Australian crowds to heckle Panesar and others like him who are not white because they think, "These people are different; they eat curry; we eat elaborate seven-course meals; we are white, they are dark etc."
It's the reason why white Australians won't give you directions if you are lost in Sydney or Melbourne. They'll tell you they don't know even if the street is just round the corner. They don't care if you are with family and kids and that you are facing a tough time. They just don't care because you are differently coloured. It's that simple.
Like Kipling said a century and more ago: "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall mee." Of course, I'm only partially quoting him, as he goes on to say that the two shall meet at "God's great judgement feet". Or something to that effect.
My point is that the more we play each other, the more enmity breeds. Yes, India and Pakistan don't play with the same rancour anymore after being bitter enemies for 60 years. However, that's because the 2004 series showed us that basically we are the same people divided by religion and an artifical border. We are of the same genetic stock.
But we can't say the same thing about the Australians or the English. In South Africa in the early 1980s, a little black girl's life ebbed away because she could not get blood stored in the blood bank because it belonged to white donors. The laws of the then apartheid government said you could not mix blood of different races! Do a google search, you might find that story somewhere.
The reason I'm saying all this is that when the white countries play India and Pakistan, there's so much rancour invloved. It's not a healthy rivalry like the Ashes series.
So let's split and create a seaparate league. Bring in the Windies and the cricket world is going to be lot fairer (no pun intended) than it is today.
It would be a new World Cricket Council that'll have India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, and many more. We could work on the Windies to join us though they are heavily influenced by the British who give them aid, so they may stay away. But once their cricket systems become starved of funds, they'll come around. Trust me. They can't keep visiting Australia and England all the time to bring in revenue.
If we can't co-exist peacefully, lets go our separate ways. Sport is meant to be fun, uplifting, but cricket's beginning to leave a bitter after taste.
Jai Hind
Posted by Deviantman on 2007-10-19 11:10:12
Your guest is your god.
...Old Indian mantra.
Guest comes home and hates your celebrations.
Your pleasure annoys him.
You may offer the other cheek.
Apologise for the loud music
and the house...the state of it ... when he came...
or...
Place a cracker under his bonnet too.
...New Indian mantra.
Posted by Tail spin on 2007-10-19 11:28:29
...Old Indian mantra.
Guest comes home and hates your celebrations.
Your pleasure annoys him.
You may offer the other cheek.
Apologise for the loud music
and the house...the state of it ... when he came...
or...
Place a cracker under his bonnet too.
...New Indian mantra.
Posted by Tail spin on 2007-10-19 11:28:29
Apartheid in cricket, you can't be serious?! Let me just warn everyone that discussing racism is one thing - actually making racist comments is another and Deviantman's comment is skating on thin ice - I'll be deleting any comments that are racist in tone.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-19 11:31:57
Posted by JC on 2007-10-19 11:31:57
I suggest, Jai Hind, that you go back to school. Whatever you or your parents have paid for your education, particularly the history part, has been wasted. Leave history to historians and issues of race to anthropologists and sociologists. Stick to talking about cricket. And while you are at it, do you really think any of the current or future players are going to be interested in this new world order of yours? Would any Indian player seriously think that a life of cricket wouls have any meaning if they never had to face the likes of Warne, McGrath, and Flintoff? Likewise, would these Aussie and Pommie greats remain in the game if there was no prospect of having to bowl to the likes of Tendulkar? I suggest you cut the vitriol and participate in discussion as someone that wants to bridge gaps rather than someone who has a fetish for burning bridges.
Posted by TA on 2007-10-19 11:33:47
Posted by TA on 2007-10-19 11:33:47
Well said TA and JC.
If you want to look at something different look at the help the Western world freely offered to Sri Lanka and other Asian countries badly hit by the Tsunami. Look at the works of Steve Waugh in India and consider the wonderful offerings that Lee gives to you musical community.
But to be honest I can see why Deviant would want to cut England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa out of the ICC. After all when you remove those teams India moves to the top of the ICC rankings in ODI and Tests....
Sorry Deviant India will have to get there the hard way, not by kicking out the other teams.
Also Deviant you may want to read the reports on racism to South African players in Pakistan to see this is not an isolated event. As Jeet said there are idiots in every country.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 11:46:40
If you want to look at something different look at the help the Western world freely offered to Sri Lanka and other Asian countries badly hit by the Tsunami. Look at the works of Steve Waugh in India and consider the wonderful offerings that Lee gives to you musical community.
But to be honest I can see why Deviant would want to cut England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa out of the ICC. After all when you remove those teams India moves to the top of the ICC rankings in ODI and Tests....
Sorry Deviant India will have to get there the hard way, not by kicking out the other teams.
Also Deviant you may want to read the reports on racism to South African players in Pakistan to see this is not an isolated event. As Jeet said there are idiots in every country.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 11:46:40
Funny stuff Deviantman. Every race has the same genetic stock. The fact that it took 57 years for the rancour to subside speaks volumes about some people in your respective countries.
Beside the drunken lout who called Monty a "stupid indian", what other abuse did he suffer. I was at Brisbane and devastated that they didn't play him. 99.999% of Aussies love him.
When the Tsunami hit Thailand, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, we were there to help. When the earthquake hit Pakistan, we were there.
I personally don't carry a road map with me when I'm out walking so I apologise for not being able to give you directions.
The BCCI's refusal to accept the racist behaviour just makes me laugh. How dare these Goras accuse US of being racist.
Your post gives great insight into the nature of some Indians and how they see the world.
Anyhoo gotta run, have to finish sewing a southern cross on to my East India Company Flag.
Choke de India
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 12:27:25
Beside the drunken lout who called Monty a "stupid indian", what other abuse did he suffer. I was at Brisbane and devastated that they didn't play him. 99.999% of Aussies love him.
When the Tsunami hit Thailand, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, we were there to help. When the earthquake hit Pakistan, we were there.
I personally don't carry a road map with me when I'm out walking so I apologise for not being able to give you directions.
The BCCI's refusal to accept the racist behaviour just makes me laugh. How dare these Goras accuse US of being racist.
Your post gives great insight into the nature of some Indians and how they see the world.
Anyhoo gotta run, have to finish sewing a southern cross on to my East India Company Flag.
Choke de India
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 12:27:25
How does one wear soft pink goggles and wish away all embarassing past.
Like Monkey Panesar never happened.
Oh ! We love the guy. You're mistaken...We never...
& I believe a lot of bloggers are doing a disservice to Steve Waugh ...
Don't remember him counting any browny points for his bit
Truly Altruistic ...
and scoring points for those who helped in Sri Lanka ....
If you guys need to keep a count of this kinda stuff
You are so not cool
I thought you were... you look cool in HOME N AWAY
AAH, I AM SO DISAPPOINTED IN YOU
I thought lying around the beaches clears webs ... like pronto... maybe not.
You are only human.
We will get you in Oz !
Posted by Tail Spin on 2007-10-19 13:20:27
Like Monkey Panesar never happened.
Oh ! We love the guy. You're mistaken...We never...
& I believe a lot of bloggers are doing a disservice to Steve Waugh ...
Don't remember him counting any browny points for his bit
Truly Altruistic ...
and scoring points for those who helped in Sri Lanka ....
If you guys need to keep a count of this kinda stuff
You are so not cool
I thought you were... you look cool in HOME N AWAY
AAH, I AM SO DISAPPOINTED IN YOU
I thought lying around the beaches clears webs ... like pronto... maybe not.
You are only human.
We will get you in Oz !
Posted by Tail Spin on 2007-10-19 13:20:27
TailSpinner - The only reason we "keep a count of this kinda stuff" is to point out to the ignorant that we help our neighbours in times of need. If we really didn't like you we wouldn't.
Though we might have a keen dislike of our Kiwi and SA sporting opponents/neighbours we are hardly likely to invade or nuke them.
You watch Home n Away? Are you a 13 yr old girl?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 14:40:38
Though we might have a keen dislike of our Kiwi and SA sporting opponents/neighbours we are hardly likely to invade or nuke them.
You watch Home n Away? Are you a 13 yr old girl?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 14:40:38
No wonder the Indians don't like us if we inflict Home n Away on them as well.
Tail Spin tell you what you find another case where Monty was abused apart from that one guy in Sydney.
Then see how many Indians were abusing Symonds in multiple games and how the Pakistanis were abusing the South Africans, though at least Pakistan had the good grace to believe the players in question.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 14:46:29
Tail Spin tell you what you find another case where Monty was abused apart from that one guy in Sydney.
Then see how many Indians were abusing Symonds in multiple games and how the Pakistanis were abusing the South Africans, though at least Pakistan had the good grace to believe the players in question.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 14:46:29
Don't you think that Dr. Haneef case was racist rather than a mere monkey call to Symbo.. I mean lets talk the severity..
Maybe Symonds should have been called Simba (lion), he'd have felt associated.. Unfortunately there are no lions down under .. are they?
get on with you lives guys.. you know the Aussies have exaggerated.. and its more a media hype led by Alex Brown (ironic surname) of the Sydney Morning Herald..
Posted by kurt on 2007-10-19 16:24:52
Maybe Symonds should have been called Simba (lion), he'd have felt associated.. Unfortunately there are no lions down under .. are they?
get on with you lives guys.. you know the Aussies have exaggerated.. and its more a media hype led by Alex Brown (ironic surname) of the Sydney Morning Herald..
Posted by kurt on 2007-10-19 16:24:52
We used to have lions but they died out a few thousand years ago ; mostly eaten by drop bears.
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-19 16:35:01
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-19 16:35:01
Yea those drop bears are vicous, remember if you come to Australia and go in the outback remember to wear Vegemite behind your ears before you go to sleep. Its the only thing that will protect you. Marmite may do the job as well but Vegemite seems to work better.
Everyone always focuses on the sharks, crocs, snakes and spider in Australia but no one ever warns tourists about those drop bears.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 17:20:20
Everyone always focuses on the sharks, crocs, snakes and spider in Australia but no one ever warns tourists about those drop bears.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 17:20:20
kurt - Just exactly how was the Haneef case racist?
I suppose the Dr "Death" Patel case is racist too?
Would it be OK if I called you a monkey?
The problem India is facing is it's hypocrisy. You think because you have historically been on the receiving end of racism then it is impossible for you to be racist to any one else.
I can confirm racism exists in Australia but can you admit it exists in India. Yeah that's right, it's just a language/cultural misunderstanding.
Hello, there's an elephant in the room and it ain't Ganesh.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 17:24:02
I suppose the Dr "Death" Patel case is racist too?
Would it be OK if I called you a monkey?
The problem India is facing is it's hypocrisy. You think because you have historically been on the receiving end of racism then it is impossible for you to be racist to any one else.
I can confirm racism exists in Australia but can you admit it exists in India. Yeah that's right, it's just a language/cultural misunderstanding.
Hello, there's an elephant in the room and it ain't Ganesh.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 17:24:02
Just exactly how was the Haneef case racist? - you should try asking Mr Immigration Minister
I suppose the Dr "Death" Patel case is racist too?
No for Pater he deserves to be kicked out..
but yes for the Bali 9..
The problem India is facing is it's hypocrisy. You think because you have historically been on the receiving end of racism then it is impossible for you to be racist to any one else.
Let me rephrase - The problem Australia is facing is that they have Historically been on the giving end of racism - Wish I could ask any Aboriginal people in Tassie
I can confirm racism exists in Australia but can you admit it exists in India. Yeah that's right, it's just a language/cultural misunderstanding.
Well, I can confirm the racism exists in India as well, and I accept it.. But its only derivative in this case.
Hello, there's an elephant in the room and it ain't Ganesh.
Hello the Pope is in the room, but he is not a pedophile either..
Accept that sometimes you can make a Mountain out of a Mole.. and try and keep the Australian Media's shit stirring in their dunny..
Posted by Kurt on 2007-10-19 18:00:23
I suppose the Dr "Death" Patel case is racist too?
No for Pater he deserves to be kicked out..
but yes for the Bali 9..
The problem India is facing is it's hypocrisy. You think because you have historically been on the receiving end of racism then it is impossible for you to be racist to any one else.
Let me rephrase - The problem Australia is facing is that they have Historically been on the giving end of racism - Wish I could ask any Aboriginal people in Tassie
I can confirm racism exists in Australia but can you admit it exists in India. Yeah that's right, it's just a language/cultural misunderstanding.
Well, I can confirm the racism exists in India as well, and I accept it.. But its only derivative in this case.
Hello, there's an elephant in the room and it ain't Ganesh.
Hello the Pope is in the room, but he is not a pedophile either..
Accept that sometimes you can make a Mountain out of a Mole.. and try and keep the Australian Media's shit stirring in their dunny..
Posted by Kurt on 2007-10-19 18:00:23
I'll ask the Immigration Minister about your visa at the same time. Lots of accusations but no substance. Actually we want Patel to come back and face trial.
There are Aboriginals in Tassie, but yes the fullbloods were wiped out. A shameful part of our history. A bit like the massacre of women and children at Cawnpore in India.
You deflect or redirect all the issues but the elephant remains unaddressed.
Derivative racism is somehow ok then? Or more succintly, racism against Aussies is ok but racism against Indians is not.
Perhaps you should apply some more of that whitening cream to soothe your tortured soul. I mean 350 odd years of occupation by the English would probably give me a massive chip on my should too.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 18:27:35
There are Aboriginals in Tassie, but yes the fullbloods were wiped out. A shameful part of our history. A bit like the massacre of women and children at Cawnpore in India.
You deflect or redirect all the issues but the elephant remains unaddressed.
Derivative racism is somehow ok then? Or more succintly, racism against Aussies is ok but racism against Indians is not.
Perhaps you should apply some more of that whitening cream to soothe your tortured soul. I mean 350 odd years of occupation by the English would probably give me a massive chip on my should too.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 18:27:35
That's right Hanuman - 'Monkey God'.. You have bought it (like the Aussie cricketers) upon yourself.
Cawnpore which is actually Kanpur was a uprising to throw the British occupation in the region.. which was however not as bad as the Amritsar massacre. I can see that we could go on and on digging things from history..
But the fact remains, that Aussies have been on the receiving end of a smaller portion of their own medicine and they seem to be having major side effects (more like a heart attack).
Derivative racism is a fact of life that the Aussies have to get used to.. I think West Indian - Sarwan and the English team are good examples of what you should be expecting. I wonder what he told McGrath??
Derivative racism is somehow ok then? Or more succintly, racism against Aussies is ok but racism against Indians is not. - well i dont see calling Symo a monkey is racist at all..
Would you feel offended if you were called a Tiger or elephant or Hanuman?
And with regards to whitening cream, well you should think of melanoma before tanning your white washed behind on the most amazing Australian white sand beaches.. It can be quite life threatening. Moreover you don't have any Aussie doctors either mate..
Perhaps the reason for the Tan would be to differentiate from the English..The inhuman way your forefathers were kicked out by them from their own country..would probably be hard to bear too..
This is the Ganesh reincarnation of cricket.. Matey
Posted by Kurt on 2007-10-19 19:04:20
Cawnpore which is actually Kanpur was a uprising to throw the British occupation in the region.. which was however not as bad as the Amritsar massacre. I can see that we could go on and on digging things from history..
But the fact remains, that Aussies have been on the receiving end of a smaller portion of their own medicine and they seem to be having major side effects (more like a heart attack).
Derivative racism is a fact of life that the Aussies have to get used to.. I think West Indian - Sarwan and the English team are good examples of what you should be expecting. I wonder what he told McGrath??
Derivative racism is somehow ok then? Or more succintly, racism against Aussies is ok but racism against Indians is not. - well i dont see calling Symo a monkey is racist at all..
Would you feel offended if you were called a Tiger or elephant or Hanuman?
And with regards to whitening cream, well you should think of melanoma before tanning your white washed behind on the most amazing Australian white sand beaches.. It can be quite life threatening. Moreover you don't have any Aussie doctors either mate..
Perhaps the reason for the Tan would be to differentiate from the English..The inhuman way your forefathers were kicked out by them from their own country..would probably be hard to bear too..
This is the Ganesh reincarnation of cricket.. Matey
Posted by Kurt on 2007-10-19 19:04:20
Jeet - Except for the exception you took to me saying that mine is an Indian perspective, pretty much everything else you said is what I have been saying too.
I do not represent the whole of India. But, naturally being an Indian, I do come across a lot of Indian feelings and how they react to events. That is the only reason why I said I am trying to project an Indian perspective. Having said that the views that I wrote here are all my own.
How much different is what I said from yours? Almost none.
I totally agree with you that hooliganism is disgusting and has to be dealt with at the highest level, whichever country is perpetrating it. Sledging too. My point is why cry and make such a hullabaloo when your own backyard is no great shakes either. Am I still misunderstood?
Dan loved it that you took exception to me. Cool. But if Dan read my post and comments in their entirety, he will know my take on the entire subject. If he did/does, he will know that my views are along the same lines as yours.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-19 19:12:15
I do not represent the whole of India. But, naturally being an Indian, I do come across a lot of Indian feelings and how they react to events. That is the only reason why I said I am trying to project an Indian perspective. Having said that the views that I wrote here are all my own.
How much different is what I said from yours? Almost none.
I totally agree with you that hooliganism is disgusting and has to be dealt with at the highest level, whichever country is perpetrating it. Sledging too. My point is why cry and make such a hullabaloo when your own backyard is no great shakes either. Am I still misunderstood?
Dan loved it that you took exception to me. Cool. But if Dan read my post and comments in their entirety, he will know my take on the entire subject. If he did/does, he will know that my views are along the same lines as yours.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-19 19:12:15
Yes the Cawnpore rebuttal was off colour, I should have pointed out the Adamanese demise.
Nah not a heart attack, just dismay/disbelief at the double standards.
The issue is not so much the taunts but the absolute denial that they happened or were actually racist.
After a couple of ex pat Saffas said some naughty things in Perth 05/06 the ICC gave us a working over.
Naturally we expect if the rules apply to us then they should apply to everyone.
I don't understand what your mentioning of the English team achieves. I mean what was/is their claim to fame. A jellybean collection?
Yeah the McGrath/Sarwan thing was wrong but most of the time McG was expressing his frustration at himself.
I asked before and I ask again, if I called you a monkey, would you see that as racist?
Calling someone a monkey or gorilla is a known put down inferring they are further back up the evolutionary tree. The same connotation doesn't exist with Tigers or elephants. Don't try to pull the wool over our eyes with that spurious argument.
Yeah melanoma is a problem for people with fair skin, so why on earth are people in India trying to whiten theirs?
Apparently we don't need to train any Doctors we can pick and choose from India's finest who are tripping over themselves to lie and cheat on their resumes to get here.
As for the convict jibe, don't worry my friend we are eternally grateful for our forefathers being sent to Aus for stealing loaves of bread to feed their starving families. Can you believe it, a free trip to Aus. If that deal was offered in India now there would be anarchy.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 19:37:31
Nah not a heart attack, just dismay/disbelief at the double standards.
The issue is not so much the taunts but the absolute denial that they happened or were actually racist.
After a couple of ex pat Saffas said some naughty things in Perth 05/06 the ICC gave us a working over.
Naturally we expect if the rules apply to us then they should apply to everyone.
I don't understand what your mentioning of the English team achieves. I mean what was/is their claim to fame. A jellybean collection?
Yeah the McGrath/Sarwan thing was wrong but most of the time McG was expressing his frustration at himself.
I asked before and I ask again, if I called you a monkey, would you see that as racist?
Calling someone a monkey or gorilla is a known put down inferring they are further back up the evolutionary tree. The same connotation doesn't exist with Tigers or elephants. Don't try to pull the wool over our eyes with that spurious argument.
Yeah melanoma is a problem for people with fair skin, so why on earth are people in India trying to whiten theirs?
Apparently we don't need to train any Doctors we can pick and choose from India's finest who are tripping over themselves to lie and cheat on their resumes to get here.
As for the convict jibe, don't worry my friend we are eternally grateful for our forefathers being sent to Aus for stealing loaves of bread to feed their starving families. Can you believe it, a free trip to Aus. If that deal was offered in India now there would be anarchy.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 19:37:31
Hanuman,
"Though we might have a keen dislike of our Kiwi and SA sporting opponents/neighbours we are hardly likely to invade or nuke them. "
Imagine a scenario...
No beaches...
Landlocked between Newzealand, SA & Poms
urrghhhh
wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy
"You are as chilled as you are allowed to be"...old chinese saying
Posted by Tail Spin on 2007-10-19 19:38:45
"Though we might have a keen dislike of our Kiwi and SA sporting opponents/neighbours we are hardly likely to invade or nuke them. "
Imagine a scenario...
No beaches...
Landlocked between Newzealand, SA & Poms
urrghhhh
wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy
"You are as chilled as you are allowed to be"...old chinese saying
Posted by Tail Spin on 2007-10-19 19:38:45
LOL Mahesh you give yourself far too much credit.
You insulted players, you misquoted Australian officials and players and misrepresented what they said. You mispresented the facts when it came to Monty either by being too lazy to bother researching or by choice.
You also seem to have double standards to racial abuse you approve of it when it comes to Australians but not Indians. So get off your high horse Mahesh and don't insult people like Jeet, who can put together a clear arguement without lying or insulting players/officals.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 19:49:42
You insulted players, you misquoted Australian officials and players and misrepresented what they said. You mispresented the facts when it came to Monty either by being too lazy to bother researching or by choice.
You also seem to have double standards to racial abuse you approve of it when it comes to Australians but not Indians. So get off your high horse Mahesh and don't insult people like Jeet, who can put together a clear arguement without lying or insulting players/officals.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-19 19:49:42
The tone of Jeet's contribution was calm, rational and conciliatory.
Therein, Mahesh, lies the difference.
Posted by Dan Tas on 2007-10-19 19:51:05
Therein, Mahesh, lies the difference.
Posted by Dan Tas on 2007-10-19 19:51:05
Hey Tail Spin, that's a scary thought.. would hope for a solid southerly to avoid the pollution and general stench of Poms and Saffas... kiwi's at least keep their shop cleanQ
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-19 19:55:18
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-19 19:55:18
TailSpinner, stop it you are going to give me nightmares.
Thanks for the insight, now I understand the Pakistan/India wars. I retract my statement about nuking SA/NZ.
The problem is they are actually invading us by stealth. Just look at the colours in the crowds during tests.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 20:20:43
Thanks for the insight, now I understand the Pakistan/India wars. I retract my statement about nuking SA/NZ.
The problem is they are actually invading us by stealth. Just look at the colours in the crowds during tests.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 20:20:43
The Andamanese demise is something that both Indians and British should take blame.. But since no one has its even stevens..
Double Standards - I can't believe you're actually saying that here .. What double standards is that you term McGrath's comments as frustration but Shreesanth's expression (which was mute) as racist. How can you live with yourself..
And don't term McGrath/Sarwan incident.. the person who throws the 1st punch is always guilty, so its just the McGrath thing (over & over again). See the legacy he leaves behind .. a game full of racial comments .. He will always be remembered as the best bowler and the worst cricketer, except deep down under though..
My argument is that if you start it, be ready to cop it back.. Don't go back crying to your Mum complaining that it was not fair (again Fair is an ironic word).
With regards to Indian Doctors, well I wonder how many Aussies would have been alive if they it wasn't for them.. For all you know you must have been born with the help of an Indian Doctor, so be grateful that you can at least get a doctor to save your sorry @^$#
with regards to
I asked before and I ask again, if I called you a monkey, would you see that as racist?
If you can call yourself Hanuman (supposed to be even more prehistoric than monkeys) and not be offended, what is the problem if someone calls Symo a Monkey? I don't need to justify the point further.. He is merely over exaggerating thats all.. I think he would have to live with it for the rest of his life.. Moreover the Indians in Mumbai were arrested for that so there is no Double standard... Nobody from the Indian team called him a monkey,Indians have been fair to cricket and racism.. So you Start it and we'll stop it.. like this argument here.. I can go forever baby, so bring it on..
Regarding your famous trip down under, well if you feel that way on being kicked out.. Hats off to your kind.. Atleast the Indian's have their motherland where they can go back.. I wonder whether the Pomms would take you back.. but you would still regard Elizabeth as your queen..
Indian's use the Fairness cream to turn fair.. They are fair to everyone... we are not forced on to a pale white cream and nor do we really want one.. "we want to be fair, not pale and unfair".
You are so obsessed on becoming dark that you invite more to live amongst yourselves..
Remember the Monarchy kicked you out because of your Anarchy
Posted by Kurt on 2007-10-19 20:36:31
Double Standards - I can't believe you're actually saying that here .. What double standards is that you term McGrath's comments as frustration but Shreesanth's expression (which was mute) as racist. How can you live with yourself..
And don't term McGrath/Sarwan incident.. the person who throws the 1st punch is always guilty, so its just the McGrath thing (over & over again). See the legacy he leaves behind .. a game full of racial comments .. He will always be remembered as the best bowler and the worst cricketer, except deep down under though..
My argument is that if you start it, be ready to cop it back.. Don't go back crying to your Mum complaining that it was not fair (again Fair is an ironic word).
With regards to Indian Doctors, well I wonder how many Aussies would have been alive if they it wasn't for them.. For all you know you must have been born with the help of an Indian Doctor, so be grateful that you can at least get a doctor to save your sorry @^$#
with regards to
I asked before and I ask again, if I called you a monkey, would you see that as racist?
If you can call yourself Hanuman (supposed to be even more prehistoric than monkeys) and not be offended, what is the problem if someone calls Symo a Monkey? I don't need to justify the point further.. He is merely over exaggerating thats all.. I think he would have to live with it for the rest of his life.. Moreover the Indians in Mumbai were arrested for that so there is no Double standard... Nobody from the Indian team called him a monkey,Indians have been fair to cricket and racism.. So you Start it and we'll stop it.. like this argument here.. I can go forever baby, so bring it on..
Regarding your famous trip down under, well if you feel that way on being kicked out.. Hats off to your kind.. Atleast the Indian's have their motherland where they can go back.. I wonder whether the Pomms would take you back.. but you would still regard Elizabeth as your queen..
Indian's use the Fairness cream to turn fair.. They are fair to everyone... we are not forced on to a pale white cream and nor do we really want one.. "we want to be fair, not pale and unfair".
You are so obsessed on becoming dark that you invite more to live amongst yourselves..
Remember the Monarchy kicked you out because of your Anarchy
Posted by Kurt on 2007-10-19 20:36:31
Hi
message to all Australian Cricket lovers:
Rest Assured we do not know the why Symonds should be racially targeted in comparison to any other Aussie Player. The Indian public knows very little about the Australian people and the races existing in australia....but yes, we know many of your cricketing heroes and they are respected here too, i.e., Don Bradman, Steve Waugh, Allan Border, Dennis Lillee etc...
Indians, or asians in general, have a cultural tradition of treating Guests with respect, its called "Mehmaan Nawaazi". Which is why there are so many parties, get-togethers when visitors come to India...because we feel its our duty to make our guests comfortable...
Having said this...the current Aussie Team (in comparison with the Steve Waugh team that toured in 2001) has sent out bad vibes from day one of this tour. We Indians know and love our cricket and our cricketers, we know Australians are the best currently but that doesnt mean that your team, lead by its captain, attacks all and sundry with verbal diarrhoea....to note, Ponting attacked Tendulkar (Demi-God in India) on achieving 400 ODIs with a cynical remark that he was off the field for the first part of the match, Ponting made a comment after the 7th ODI that Kartik could have walked....when he himself wouldnt have!!! This apart from so many other instances....
Aussies need to more gallant on & off the field...in the present, you are the world champions, win and lose like a champion, be graciou
Posted by dcs on 2007-10-19 20:42:50
message to all Australian Cricket lovers:
Rest Assured we do not know the why Symonds should be racially targeted in comparison to any other Aussie Player. The Indian public knows very little about the Australian people and the races existing in australia....but yes, we know many of your cricketing heroes and they are respected here too, i.e., Don Bradman, Steve Waugh, Allan Border, Dennis Lillee etc...
Indians, or asians in general, have a cultural tradition of treating Guests with respect, its called "Mehmaan Nawaazi". Which is why there are so many parties, get-togethers when visitors come to India...because we feel its our duty to make our guests comfortable...
Having said this...the current Aussie Team (in comparison with the Steve Waugh team that toured in 2001) has sent out bad vibes from day one of this tour. We Indians know and love our cricket and our cricketers, we know Australians are the best currently but that doesnt mean that your team, lead by its captain, attacks all and sundry with verbal diarrhoea....to note, Ponting attacked Tendulkar (Demi-God in India) on achieving 400 ODIs with a cynical remark that he was off the field for the first part of the match, Ponting made a comment after the 7th ODI that Kartik could have walked....when he himself wouldnt have!!! This apart from so many other instances....
Aussies need to more gallant on & off the field...in the present, you are the world champions, win and lose like a champion, be graciou
Posted by dcs on 2007-10-19 20:42:50
why all this fuss is being made without anything substancial or troublesome being done.. just making some gestures doesnt mean racist remarks... none of the public have said even a single word.. they've just tried to imitate one of the aussie player... that's all.. where does racism come into this? could any of them pls explain it?
Posted by dcs on 2007-10-19 20:50:38
Posted by dcs on 2007-10-19 20:50:38
I think you will find the common element both in the Andamanese and Tasmanian situations were the English.
I didn't say anything about Sree but since you asked. Loved what he did to Nel in SA. Thought he carried on like a pork chop in the latest series. Needs further instruction on sledging and should talk to Steve Waugh.
As for starting it, I think Roy opened his gob and said some wayward things about the celebrations (cultural thing) but then finished it with his bat.
"With regards to Indian Doctors, well I wonder how many Aussies would have been alive if they it wasn't for them.." Unfortunately probably a lot more. Patel sure racked up a body count. Fortunately I have never had to see an Indian doctor. Probably saved my life.
[apologies to all our fine Indian doctors working in Aus - just a bit of childish banter, pls ignore]
The question remains, if I called you a monkey would you not see that as racist.
The four arrested/fined were only arrested after the police were forced to. This was the third event at which there was racist behaviour. The inaction and denial is the problem. The best example is the BCCI's failure to appoint a anti racism officer. Shetty is just a joke.
Yes you are right I couldn't/wouldn't go back to England, it's already full to the brim with subcontinental types.
I don't know anyone who wants to move to India, it's just the opposite. Australia on the other hand...
I love the Queen just cause she has your kohinoor diamond in her crown is no reason to hate her. Those Poms don't treat her right, she should emigrate here too (leave Phil at home though).
Yeah we accept all sorts here (after a period of gentle adjustment) even dark skinned ones. What's wrong with that. Are you racist?
After 200 years of the convict jibe we are immune/blase about it. Try something else. Do you want some pointers?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 21:15:34
I didn't say anything about Sree but since you asked. Loved what he did to Nel in SA. Thought he carried on like a pork chop in the latest series. Needs further instruction on sledging and should talk to Steve Waugh.
As for starting it, I think Roy opened his gob and said some wayward things about the celebrations (cultural thing) but then finished it with his bat.
"With regards to Indian Doctors, well I wonder how many Aussies would have been alive if they it wasn't for them.." Unfortunately probably a lot more. Patel sure racked up a body count. Fortunately I have never had to see an Indian doctor. Probably saved my life.
[apologies to all our fine Indian doctors working in Aus - just a bit of childish banter, pls ignore]
The question remains, if I called you a monkey would you not see that as racist.
The four arrested/fined were only arrested after the police were forced to. This was the third event at which there was racist behaviour. The inaction and denial is the problem. The best example is the BCCI's failure to appoint a anti racism officer. Shetty is just a joke.
Yes you are right I couldn't/wouldn't go back to England, it's already full to the brim with subcontinental types.
I don't know anyone who wants to move to India, it's just the opposite. Australia on the other hand...
I love the Queen just cause she has your kohinoor diamond in her crown is no reason to hate her. Those Poms don't treat her right, she should emigrate here too (leave Phil at home though).
Yeah we accept all sorts here (after a period of gentle adjustment) even dark skinned ones. What's wrong with that. Are you racist?
After 200 years of the convict jibe we are immune/blase about it. Try something else. Do you want some pointers?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-19 21:15:34
Thanks Dan Tas, and Andrew for your generous compliments. Mahesh, I think you need to be more open-minded and far less agressive when discussing really important issues like racism. An issue like this cannot be trivialized into "Hey you did that to us, now take this"...its is a global issue, not a narrow country-based issue. Indians are as guilty (if not more), as exemplified by the Symonds incident.
Posted by Jeet on 2007-10-19 23:06:37
Posted by Jeet on 2007-10-19 23:06:37
Jeet - Indians are obviously and glaringly guilty... and I guess I went too aggro in trying to point out that it happens everywhere and a champ (here, Oz) has to behave like one. Point taken..
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-20 03:43:25
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-20 03:43:25
Looks like we have arrived at the last scene of a Bollywood flick when everyone says it was their fault really...
Then they pose for a huge group photo
The angle of the shot can be crucial here...
to avoid some uncles and aunties...
If you catch my drft...
Posted by Tail Spin on 2007-10-20 05:48:49
Then they pose for a huge group photo
The angle of the shot can be crucial here...
to avoid some uncles and aunties...
If you catch my drft...
Posted by Tail Spin on 2007-10-20 05:48:49
Tail - Ha ha ha... Now, that was a good parallel. Yeah, I am just trying to get into the customary last-scene grab.
The whole idea is to listen to all ideas from all directions, discuss, deliberate, fight, reconcile... ... and finally come to a consensus...right?
It was good while it lasted. And even better at the final scene!
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-20 10:50:24
The whole idea is to listen to all ideas from all directions, discuss, deliberate, fight, reconcile... ... and finally come to a consensus...right?
It was good while it lasted. And even better at the final scene!
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-20 10:50:24
In the reality show that is India today, there is every danger that the new, aggressive, young "superior" India could end up as a farcical entity, doing no good to itself and to those who wish it well.
In this new world, the gnawing, snarling, hissing face of a Sreesanth or the image of a Harbhajan Singh contorting his face is to be celebrated and much admired. "Give it back to them" is the refrain. After all, haven't we been at the receiving end of "racial slurs" from the white world for too long?
Haven't the crowds in Australia targetted us viciously? And, haven't the Australian players always been masters of sledging - so what are they complaining about?
In this brave new world that is India today, tit for tat is becoming our emblem, something to be flaunted with pride. We seem to be revelling in our newfound economic freedom, in our growing GDP and in the money that is flowing into the coffers of middle class, urban India.
As far as racism goes, what does that mean? We in India, who, for centuries, have discriminated against people on the basis of caste and colour, know the meaning only because the white world treated us as inferior beings! So what if our crowd calls West Indian players "bhoots" (ghosts). They are only taunting them because the colour of their skin is black, not because of any racist intentions!
Similarly, if Andrew Symonds is now the target of our ire, it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin or his hairstyle. It has to do with the man himself. How dare he taunt our players? How dare he take a "panga" with this new India? In this globalised world, India is now ahead of the world and what you do, we can do even better.
Oh yes, he has cricketing skills. Skills that make him someone special but we in India only respect good manners. For us now, meekness in others is a sign of our own aggressive strengths.
Anyone from India who has been to Australia on a cricket tour knows how stifling it gets there, especially when your team is doing badly and the media is poking fun at the players. There are many subtle ways in which they make you feel "inferior" and a section of the crowd targets the players with racist chants.
But there are also people there who condemn such behaviour and, in any case, two wrongs can never make a right.
On this Australian tour here, the verbal jousts have often gone out of control and a section of the media does seem to be supportive of what our players are doing. It almost seems as if the more aggressive someone is on the field, the better his chances of doing better.
Alas, it does not work that way. A team wins because it is superior in skills and not superior in antics. There may be much to be disliked in the Australian way of playing cricket, but there is also a lot to be admired in the way they play the game.
Let us follow them in the good things they do, their cricketing system, their training methods, their putting in place a system that has helped them become the best team in the world over the years.
But, please, let us not follow them in sledging, in their "I am superior" attitude towards their rivals and certainly not in trying to strip a player of his self-respect and dignity. Everyone wants his team to win but in the end, we have to remember that we are watching cricket, not a war where a nation's independence is at stake. If we can't appreciate skill, no matter which side is displaying it, we have no right to call ourselves a sporting nation.
Let us not scar the image of a new, young and vibrant India. Let it have a pleasant face.
Posted by Unknown on 2007-10-20 12:49:07
In this new world, the gnawing, snarling, hissing face of a Sreesanth or the image of a Harbhajan Singh contorting his face is to be celebrated and much admired. "Give it back to them" is the refrain. After all, haven't we been at the receiving end of "racial slurs" from the white world for too long?
Haven't the crowds in Australia targetted us viciously? And, haven't the Australian players always been masters of sledging - so what are they complaining about?
In this brave new world that is India today, tit for tat is becoming our emblem, something to be flaunted with pride. We seem to be revelling in our newfound economic freedom, in our growing GDP and in the money that is flowing into the coffers of middle class, urban India.
As far as racism goes, what does that mean? We in India, who, for centuries, have discriminated against people on the basis of caste and colour, know the meaning only because the white world treated us as inferior beings! So what if our crowd calls West Indian players "bhoots" (ghosts). They are only taunting them because the colour of their skin is black, not because of any racist intentions!
Similarly, if Andrew Symonds is now the target of our ire, it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin or his hairstyle. It has to do with the man himself. How dare he taunt our players? How dare he take a "panga" with this new India? In this globalised world, India is now ahead of the world and what you do, we can do even better.
Oh yes, he has cricketing skills. Skills that make him someone special but we in India only respect good manners. For us now, meekness in others is a sign of our own aggressive strengths.
Anyone from India who has been to Australia on a cricket tour knows how stifling it gets there, especially when your team is doing badly and the media is poking fun at the players. There are many subtle ways in which they make you feel "inferior" and a section of the crowd targets the players with racist chants.
But there are also people there who condemn such behaviour and, in any case, two wrongs can never make a right.
On this Australian tour here, the verbal jousts have often gone out of control and a section of the media does seem to be supportive of what our players are doing. It almost seems as if the more aggressive someone is on the field, the better his chances of doing better.
Alas, it does not work that way. A team wins because it is superior in skills and not superior in antics. There may be much to be disliked in the Australian way of playing cricket, but there is also a lot to be admired in the way they play the game.
Let us follow them in the good things they do, their cricketing system, their training methods, their putting in place a system that has helped them become the best team in the world over the years.
But, please, let us not follow them in sledging, in their "I am superior" attitude towards their rivals and certainly not in trying to strip a player of his self-respect and dignity. Everyone wants his team to win but in the end, we have to remember that we are watching cricket, not a war where a nation's independence is at stake. If we can't appreciate skill, no matter which side is displaying it, we have no right to call ourselves a sporting nation.
Let us not scar the image of a new, young and vibrant India. Let it have a pleasant face.
Posted by Unknown on 2007-10-20 12:49:07
The problem with a lot of Indians is that they refuse to believe that racism exists in India.
According to Lalchand
Rajput, Manager, Indian Cricket Team, "Well, I think, in India we
cannot control the crowd. I personally believe, racism does not exist in India
to be very honest."
He went on to further explain that "these goras just don't understand it is a genetic thing, Indians just are incapable of being racist."
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-20 20:54:16
According to Lalchand
Rajput, Manager, Indian Cricket Team, "Well, I think, in India we
cannot control the crowd. I personally believe, racism does not exist in India
to be very honest."
He went on to further explain that "these goras just don't understand it is a genetic thing, Indians just are incapable of being racist."
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-20 20:54:16
Unknown - To be one up on those who sledge, you dont have to stoop down to their levels and sledge.
To be on up on those who are abusive, you dont have to stoop down and abuse as well.
We dont want Sreesanths. We dont want spectators who abuse our visitors.
I'd rather we have Robin Uttappas who have the real courage to step out and hit a bowler, rather than indulge in one-upmanship in sledging and abusing.
Don't do ditto unto others what they do to you. Do it differently.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-21 04:39:56
To be on up on those who are abusive, you dont have to stoop down and abuse as well.
We dont want Sreesanths. We dont want spectators who abuse our visitors.
I'd rather we have Robin Uttappas who have the real courage to step out and hit a bowler, rather than indulge in one-upmanship in sledging and abusing.
Don't do ditto unto others what they do to you. Do it differently.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-21 04:39:56
Aussies arent angels when it comes to racism.Australian crowds and players like Lehmann and McGrath have been guilty of racism before.I guess it is another case of the pot calling the kettle black (oops! is that racist too?)
But this is not defending what happened here by any means.We Indians strongly condemn this and hope it will never happen not only in India but in any other cricket venue.
Posted by Ajesh Nag on 2007-10-23 23:28:23
But this is not defending what happened here by any means.We Indians strongly condemn this and hope it will never happen not only in India but in any other cricket venue.
Posted by Ajesh Nag on 2007-10-23 23:28:23
hey guys, my first post..
I am an Australian with some indian blood in me. I love agression and sledging in any sport, whether it be cricket, rugby or football. Taunts from crowds are not new, especially in India.. its all part of the game. I do not support any form of racism but i don't think the crowds were initially racist. The game in mumbai however definetly revealed the ugly side of india's cricket crowd.
I'm sorry to play the blame game, but this all came out of making a public complaint.. the issue was not dealt with effectively by the Australian captain (or whoever decided to release it to the media). The indian media, in accordance with most media around the world, is filled with idiots and the minute they got this news it was being played time and time again. The few cricket fans who would actually result to racism in India now KNEW that this pissed the Aussies off, and thought it might put them off thier game, especially symo who was killing sreesanth (who ironically looks more like a monkey).
I was quite surprised with the Australian team making a complaint.. the way i saw it, ex australian players such as Mark Waugh have come out and stated that dealing with crowds was part of international sport. I am pretty certain Symo wouldnt have wanted it to get out this much, it was probably Ricky's doing. He wanted to be on the right side of a racism accusation for once.. and i don't blame him. Being the Australian captain is tough, especially when you win all the time.
But where do you draw this line between 'trying to put you off' and 'being racist'. I call sreesanth an ape all the time to my friends who support India and they all laugh about it. It's because thats what I think he looks like, i am not looking down on him or I don't think that i am better than him because of that. I think Symonds wishes should have been respected and this issue should not have been blown out of proportion. Now we have pathetic journalists *cough*peterlalor*cough* in Australia trying to get their two cents worth out of an issue which should have been over. If they had dealt with the racist issue behind closed doors, without so much media coverage it would have been far better for the game in the long term (for both indian crowds, and aussie crowds).
I think one of the biggest losers will be the Indian cricket fans sitting in the alcoholic bay of the SCG come the 2nd test. I already have my tickets and I still can't wait, albeit a tad more nervously.
Posted by I love Sydney on 2007-10-24 01:18:02
I am an Australian with some indian blood in me. I love agression and sledging in any sport, whether it be cricket, rugby or football. Taunts from crowds are not new, especially in India.. its all part of the game. I do not support any form of racism but i don't think the crowds were initially racist. The game in mumbai however definetly revealed the ugly side of india's cricket crowd.
I'm sorry to play the blame game, but this all came out of making a public complaint.. the issue was not dealt with effectively by the Australian captain (or whoever decided to release it to the media). The indian media, in accordance with most media around the world, is filled with idiots and the minute they got this news it was being played time and time again. The few cricket fans who would actually result to racism in India now KNEW that this pissed the Aussies off, and thought it might put them off thier game, especially symo who was killing sreesanth (who ironically looks more like a monkey).
I was quite surprised with the Australian team making a complaint.. the way i saw it, ex australian players such as Mark Waugh have come out and stated that dealing with crowds was part of international sport. I am pretty certain Symo wouldnt have wanted it to get out this much, it was probably Ricky's doing. He wanted to be on the right side of a racism accusation for once.. and i don't blame him. Being the Australian captain is tough, especially when you win all the time.
But where do you draw this line between 'trying to put you off' and 'being racist'. I call sreesanth an ape all the time to my friends who support India and they all laugh about it. It's because thats what I think he looks like, i am not looking down on him or I don't think that i am better than him because of that. I think Symonds wishes should have been respected and this issue should not have been blown out of proportion. Now we have pathetic journalists *cough*peterlalor*cough* in Australia trying to get their two cents worth out of an issue which should have been over. If they had dealt with the racist issue behind closed doors, without so much media coverage it would have been far better for the game in the long term (for both indian crowds, and aussie crowds).
I think one of the biggest losers will be the Indian cricket fans sitting in the alcoholic bay of the SCG come the 2nd test. I already have my tickets and I still can't wait, albeit a tad more nervously.
Posted by I love Sydney on 2007-10-24 01:18:02
Thanks for your post, "I love Sydney" (if that is your real name). Be sure to drop by after the 2nd Test and let us know how the yobbo factor was at the SCG.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-24 11:53:18
Posted by JC on 2007-10-24 11:53:18
Lets face it, Symonds was not abused because he's black; otherwise imagine a West Indies tour to India,
He's abused because he's perceived as a ...
http://www.sportsfreak.co.nz/show-column.asp?ID=393
Posted by sportsfreak on 2007-10-24 16:51:44
He's abused because he's perceived as a ...
http://www.sportsfreak.co.nz/show-column.asp?ID=393
Posted by sportsfreak on 2007-10-24 16:51:44
yeah i'll let you know. by the way my real name is Andy.
and hmm i think sportsfreak raises a valid argument. There has never been such instances when West Indies tour India, or evne when black playres from other countries like South Africa or England have come to India.
you know what i reckon, the indians were just pissed off that symonds was carting them around... oh and when he said that India were celebrating too much after their T20 win.. (wtf, grow up symo)
Posted by I love Sydney on 2007-10-25 16:18:36
and hmm i think sportsfreak raises a valid argument. There has never been such instances when West Indies tour India, or evne when black playres from other countries like South Africa or England have come to India.
you know what i reckon, the indians were just pissed off that symonds was carting them around... oh and when he said that India were celebrating too much after their T20 win.. (wtf, grow up symo)
Posted by I love Sydney on 2007-10-25 16:18:36
"At the Bombay Test match against West Indies in 2002 I was told by friends in the stands that the relentless racist abuse joyously hurled at the visitors by some sections of the crowd was sickening."
Source
Never happened eh?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-26 17:59:18
Source
Never happened eh?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-26 17:59:18
Bottom Line..
I think deleting my scrap shows how desperate you guys are in pushing things under your mother's red bottomed *****..
Posted by Kurt on 2007-11-06 20:55:32
I think deleting my scrap shows how desperate you guys are in pushing things under your mother's red bottomed *****..
Posted by Kurt on 2007-11-06 20:55:32
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but I'm sure they distance resurfaces is not far away."Due to possible future" amnesty clause", Byron - Davies and Blanton - Roy may have also rushed to the Losangeles lakers. If so, the Lakers in the next season 's championship chances will increase, Kobe - Bryant also has to worry about the weakness of the guard.
The new collective bargaining agreement has been both sides agreed to the basic" amnesty clause", become the focus of discussion in recent media. It is reported, the team can use the terms laid off a player, and the player wages do not count towards the team total wages, which make more salary cap space. Byron - Davies and Blanton - Roy became extremely likely to be the implementation of this in terms of the player, it is reported, all of them will likely join the Losangeles lakers.
Posted by wede111 on 2011-11-04 13:33:52
you just have to laugh at this interpretation of the Andrew Symonds monkey taunts:
It has now been explained as a cultural misunderstanding. The crowds at Vadodara and Nagpur weren't being racist, they were worshipping the monkey god, Hanuman. Symonds wasn't vilified, the local police commissioner CP Thakur says, he just happened to wander down to the boundary as the crowd at Vadodara indulged in some impromptu 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Posted by wts30286 on 2011-11-16 15:38:01
It has now been explained as a cultural misunderstanding. The crowds at Vadodara and Nagpur weren't being racist, they were worshipping the monkey god, Hanuman. Symonds wasn't vilified, the local police commissioner CP Thakur says, he just happened to wander down to the boundary as the crowd at Vadodara indulged in some impromptu 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