Racism 2007 - Indian Chapter ends; Australian Chapter beckons!
After a brief sabbatical due to work pressure, am back, and here I go with my final (I promise!!!) post on the Indian Chapter of the racism incident. Finally, after the monkey-taunts, denials, agreements, et al, the Indian Chapter of the racism saga has ended. However, as Ponting has ‘mildly’ referred to (and thereby probably reminded the Aussie crowds to prepare themselves), the Indians can expect to face a tit-for-tat kind of backlash when they tour down under later this year. Ponting has said:
"I'm sure that at different times, Sreesanth and a few of the guys will cop a hard time from the Australian fans. That will generally happen at some stage to most teams that tour here, but I just hope — I'll keep my fingers crossed — there's no racial stuff comes up at all through the summer."
Further to my previous post and the many comments that followed, I admit that Symonds may not exactly have been a crybaby, but along with Ponting, he ensured the news filled all forms of media almost everyday since it happened. Though BCCI initially issued stupid denials, probably at ICC’s nod, did take action eventually. However, immediately after the ugly incident happened, ground authorities had swung to action instantly as the replay screen at the stadium flashed the ICC anti-racism code during the match, for the crowds to see and adhere to.
Past Aussie captains (Allan Border and Steve Waugh) have called Symonds ‘precious’. While Waugh said that the monkey-taunts did not amount to racism, Border felt that crowds always irritate the away team and that it happens everywhere. I don't completely agree with Waugh, though Border is right, it does happen everywhere, in some form or other.
Yeah, it happens everywhere, but let’s hope it doesn’t happen again, anywhere, particularly in India and Australia!
Whether it counts as racism or not, it is/was plain ugly and in very bad taste. Here’s hoping the Ozzie Chapter will just be full of cricket and good ole’ Ozzie beer…and none else!
Cheers
| Posted by Mahesh on Thu 25 Oct |  70 comments |
"I admit that Symonds may not exactly have been a crybaby, but along with Ponting, he ensured the news filled all forms of media almost everyday since it happened."
How? By saying this:
"Right now, I'm not allowed to comment on exactly what went on. But I'm not the most deadly serious bloke. Life goes on."
In the modern game, players are constantly subjected to the media. They are interviewed before and after every match and are expected to answer questions. What else could they do? It was a scandal, the reporters weren't going to let it drop, especially in India!
I still think you (and the rest of the Indian media) seem to find it much more convenient to blame the abusEE instead of the abusER.
Would you condemn a battered wife for speaking out about her abuse? I'd hope not, so why don't you save your criticism for Indian fans and the blinkered BCCI reaction!
"Though BCCI initially issued stupid denials, probably at ICC’s nod"
At the ICC's nod? Can you please quote your source for this?
"Here’s hoping the Ozzie Chapter will just be full of cricket and good ole’ Ozzie beer…and none else!"
Well at least on that we can agree.
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-25 15:51:03
Still in a state of denial aren't you Mahesh.
Instead of attacking the racists you attacked Roy. Nice one.
Roy has said f'all about it to the media but your disinformation campaign continues: "Symonds may not exactly have been a crybaby, but along with Ponting, he ensured the news filled all forms of media almost everyday since it happened." That's just not true.
You still can't digest that it was racist. Perhaps if Sree cops some monkey chants you will see the point.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-25 15:53:45
Instead of attacking the racists you attacked Roy. Nice one.
Roy has said f'all about it to the media but your disinformation campaign continues: "Symonds may not exactly have been a crybaby, but along with Ponting, he ensured the news filled all forms of media almost everyday since it happened." That's just not true.
You still can't digest that it was racist. Perhaps if Sree cops some monkey chants you will see the point.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-25 15:53:45
I seem to agree with Waugh, how are monkey chants racist? Racism only works if you already think you are inferior. Symonds is confident, and not precious at all. This was all Ponting's doing i reckon.
Posted by I love sydney on 2007-10-25 16:02:19
Posted by I love sydney on 2007-10-25 16:02:19
And it starts again, so many holes, so little time
Mahesh here is a suggestion how about you stick to commentating on the cricket skills/strategy instead of pathetic attempts to insult players and officals. At least you might stick to the facts then...
Also if your going to apologise for calling Symonds and Ponting Crybabies do it like a man, and say you were wrong, not that "maybe" you were wrong.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-25 16:04:36
Mahesh here is a suggestion how about you stick to commentating on the cricket skills/strategy instead of pathetic attempts to insult players and officals. At least you might stick to the facts then...
Also if your going to apologise for calling Symonds and Ponting Crybabies do it like a man, and say you were wrong, not that "maybe" you were wrong.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-25 16:04:36
I like the Australian cricketers
They are playing very well for long time and maintain their performance.But some time they react very rude as in reference muralidharan.
http://www.fulltimepass.com
Posted by shashi singh on 2007-10-25 16:15:04
They are playing very well for long time and maintain their performance.But some time they react very rude as in reference muralidharan.
http://www.fulltimepass.com
Posted by shashi singh on 2007-10-25 16:15:04
There have been many incidents (both in Australia and outside the Australia) by Australian cricketers, who have made racist comments to other cricket players in and out of the field. Darren Lehmann and Ian Healy (who constantly make racist remarks behind the stumps) are just two examples of such behaviour
So now Australian cricket team is in the receiving end, and now they all of sudden cries about others been ‘racist’. This is for the Australian cricket team – Just get a life. If it is good enough for you to treat others that way, then it is good enough for them to return the favour
Following is just what happened during 2005/06 (In Australia)
INCIDENTS AT GROUNDS IN 2005/06
11-14 Dec: South African players complain of racial abuse during first Test in Perth
2-6 Jan: Andre Nel complains of racial abuse while fielding in third Test in Sydney
10 Jan: South Africans again abused during warm-up for one-day game at the Gabba, Brisbane; one spectator ejected
20 Jan: Spectator at Melbourne's Telstra Dome ejected after reportedly punching an ICC official and accusing him of being South African
26 Jan: Sri Lankans abused at Adelaide Oval; five spectators ejected
Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/other_international/australia/4670676.stm
Aussies are that well behaved then prove it by action, don’t just babble about it
Posted by LordofCricketGame on 2007-10-25 16:25:29
So now Australian cricket team is in the receiving end, and now they all of sudden cries about others been ‘racist’. This is for the Australian cricket team – Just get a life. If it is good enough for you to treat others that way, then it is good enough for them to return the favour
Following is just what happened during 2005/06 (In Australia)
INCIDENTS AT GROUNDS IN 2005/06
11-14 Dec: South African players complain of racial abuse during first Test in Perth
2-6 Jan: Andre Nel complains of racial abuse while fielding in third Test in Sydney
10 Jan: South Africans again abused during warm-up for one-day game at the Gabba, Brisbane; one spectator ejected
20 Jan: Spectator at Melbourne's Telstra Dome ejected after reportedly punching an ICC official and accusing him of being South African
26 Jan: Sri Lankans abused at Adelaide Oval; five spectators ejected
Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/other_international/australia/4670676.stm
Aussies are that well behaved then prove it by action, don’t just babble about it
Posted by LordofCricketGame on 2007-10-25 16:25:29
LCG by your own words action was taken, the spectators in question were ejected from the grounds. Maybe you should read what you cut and paste.
Or we could do it the Indian ways and say the players misheard the comments and they were just an native Australian greeting for good luck.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-25 17:27:00
Or we could do it the Indian ways and say the players misheard the comments and they were just an native Australian greeting for good luck.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-25 17:27:00
Andrew - You replied to LCG that the spectators in question were ejected from the grounds by the Ozzie authorities. But after the Monty Panesar incident, Young said the matter was brought to his notice after 24 hours and that the "matter was already cold". These are his exact words:
"It's very hard to do anything after the event because the crowd's gone home and we don't know who it was.... We spoke to the ECB management on Monday and we've been working very closely with them. But we didn't have anyone there and by the time it was reported to us it was 24 hours cold."
Nobody was arrested or questioned. Source? take it
Symonds said a hundred times that he was not affected but only disappointed over the denials from authorities that it ever happened. Why would one keep on saying he was never affected, if he werent really? Sources are all over Cricinfo, Australian, BBC et al. Ponting did more of defending Symo than anything else throughout the series in India. Ah yes, he scored a 76 in a losing cause in the last match.
Even the great maestro Steve Waugh thinks a small issue was made big noise of (dont ask for source...i'd already given it).
As LordsofCricketGame listed out, there are many incidents authored by Aussie crowds.
I am not defending the Indian crowds. Nor am I defending Sreesanth. The Indian crowds and Sreesanth have been pathetic in behaviour.
All I am saying that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You cant talk about your neighbour if your house is not in order.
Timbo: You said "I still think you (and the rest of the Indian media) seem to find it much more convenient to blame the abusEE instead of the abusER." Why do you think I never blamed the abuser? I've always said the crowds and Sreesanth are to be blamed for perpetrating the incidents.
Timbo: You misquoted me on this one: You quoted one half of my line "Though BCCI initially issued stupid denials, probably at ICC’s nod," you stopped there, and asked for the source.
It now appears you didn't read the next four words of that sentence which read "did take action eventually." In plain english, that means that BCCI took action only upon ICC's nod.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-25 22:14:31
"It's very hard to do anything after the event because the crowd's gone home and we don't know who it was.... We spoke to the ECB management on Monday and we've been working very closely with them. But we didn't have anyone there and by the time it was reported to us it was 24 hours cold."
Nobody was arrested or questioned. Source? take it
Symonds said a hundred times that he was not affected but only disappointed over the denials from authorities that it ever happened. Why would one keep on saying he was never affected, if he werent really? Sources are all over Cricinfo, Australian, BBC et al. Ponting did more of defending Symo than anything else throughout the series in India. Ah yes, he scored a 76 in a losing cause in the last match.
Even the great maestro Steve Waugh thinks a small issue was made big noise of (dont ask for source...i'd already given it).
As LordsofCricketGame listed out, there are many incidents authored by Aussie crowds.
I am not defending the Indian crowds. Nor am I defending Sreesanth. The Indian crowds and Sreesanth have been pathetic in behaviour.
All I am saying that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You cant talk about your neighbour if your house is not in order.
Timbo: You said "I still think you (and the rest of the Indian media) seem to find it much more convenient to blame the abusEE instead of the abusER." Why do you think I never blamed the abuser? I've always said the crowds and Sreesanth are to be blamed for perpetrating the incidents.
Timbo: You misquoted me on this one: You quoted one half of my line "Though BCCI initially issued stupid denials, probably at ICC’s nod," you stopped there, and asked for the source.
It now appears you didn't read the next four words of that sentence which read "did take action eventually." In plain english, that means that BCCI took action only upon ICC's nod.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-25 22:14:31
Guess what? Every single country I've ever visited (and that's a few) has had racists. And I include Australia in that.
So it's not too surprising that in cricket, with playing countries being the remnants of the old British Empire, that racism should rear it's ugly head amongst the crowds.
The real issue is how should the authorities deal with it? There should be no tolerance - anyone displaying racism should be promptly evicted and possibly banned for repeated offences.
Posted by MT on 2007-10-25 22:46:10
So it's not too surprising that in cricket, with playing countries being the remnants of the old British Empire, that racism should rear it's ugly head amongst the crowds.
The real issue is how should the authorities deal with it? There should be no tolerance - anyone displaying racism should be promptly evicted and possibly banned for repeated offences.
Posted by MT on 2007-10-25 22:46:10
"Symonds said a hundred times". That's total crap, care to back that up with even 5 quotes from Roy on the issue. Keep attacking him, you'll convince yourself, but no one else.
As for the Monty incident, "stupid Indian" is racist but chanting Aussies suck is not? Huge difference when implying that your sub human by making monkey noises eh!
The issue is that you guys make a hue and cry over the issue when on the receiving end but piss and moan and deny when your guys do it. Pure hypocrisy and denial.
Your reaction by attacking instead of acknowledging the issue speaks volumes about you.
You quote Peter Young for ammunition but give us a quote where he says its just a cultural or language issue that is just misunderstood.
Therein lies the difference we acknowledge it and take steps, your guys belatedly acknowledge then attempt to deny it.
Pawar embarrasses India - take it
"All I am saying that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You cant talk about your neighbour if your house is not in order."
The issue isn't that we have racist spectators, we do, it's about taking action against those spectators without ignoring or denying it. Contrast the actions by CA and BCCI.
Brave new India, ignore it, deny it ever happened and attack the abused, then justify it (they do it so its only fair).
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-25 22:58:52
As for the Monty incident, "stupid Indian" is racist but chanting Aussies suck is not? Huge difference when implying that your sub human by making monkey noises eh!
The issue is that you guys make a hue and cry over the issue when on the receiving end but piss and moan and deny when your guys do it. Pure hypocrisy and denial.
Your reaction by attacking instead of acknowledging the issue speaks volumes about you.
You quote Peter Young for ammunition but give us a quote where he says its just a cultural or language issue that is just misunderstood.
Therein lies the difference we acknowledge it and take steps, your guys belatedly acknowledge then attempt to deny it.
Pawar embarrasses India - take it
"All I am saying that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You cant talk about your neighbour if your house is not in order."
The issue isn't that we have racist spectators, we do, it's about taking action against those spectators without ignoring or denying it. Contrast the actions by CA and BCCI.
Brave new India, ignore it, deny it ever happened and attack the abused, then justify it (they do it so its only fair).
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-25 22:58:52
"Past Aussie captains (Allan Border and Steve Waugh) have called Symonds ‘precious’. While Waugh said that the monkey-taunts did not amount to racism, Border felt that crowds always irritate the away team and that it happens everywhere."
If you read that article Border does not call Symonds precious at all. Secondly the precious comment was made by Mark Waugh not Steve.
I appreciate that you are one eyed and that makes seeing issues clearly a problem but a little diligence with your research would make for a more intelligent discussion.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-26 01:12:48
If you read that article Border does not call Symonds precious at all. Secondly the precious comment was made by Mark Waugh not Steve.
I appreciate that you are one eyed and that makes seeing issues clearly a problem but a little diligence with your research would make for a more intelligent discussion.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-26 01:12:48
Hanuman - Ok, I erred in attributing the comment to Steve instead of Mark Waugh. Clearly it was Mark Waugh, I admit.
But the point is their condemnation of the hullabaloo created by Ponting and Symo.
According to the Oz daily Herald Sun dated 16 Oct: "Former Australian batsmen Allan Border and Mark Waugh have accused Symonds of being precious after he confirmed he was the victim of monkey chants in Vadodara."
Agreed it was the journo's viewpoint that both Waugh and Border felt the same way, though in the exact quotes by the ex-players in the article, 'precious' was attributed to Waugh. But not just Herald Sun, most of the media cited both names calling Symo 'precious'.
You said I convince none else except me that Symo is complaining too much. How come 'Mark' Waugh and Border say the same thing I said? That was a plain, honest viewpoint from a neutral stance. It needs a little bit of balanced, unbiased thinking to sum up what happened in Vadodara. One should rather keeping flared up passions and misplaced patriotism aside, and look at what happened and match it against the attention the incident got. An unbiased viewpoint will automatically surface then.
You continue to say that CA takes action against erring spectators. But the truth is they never did against those who abused Monty. Did they? Obviously the spectators would have gone home, if you talk of action 24 hours after the incident. CA spoke a lot. But did little. One hopes they would later this year when India tours there.
Listen, I am not biased in favour of India. I dont approve of the joker Niranjan Shah, the BCCI official who said that 'monkey' was not a racist comment and Symo had misunderstood because he couldnt decipher the language. He also said that people dress as monkeys in the honour of the monkey-God Hanuman. And hence he suggested that it was not derogatory. This is plain bull. He was more pathetic than the abusive spectators. It was only after the ICC persisted that BCCI accepted that it was indeed racist abuse.
When calling a spade, 'a spade', you fire on both fronts, your own goal as well as the opponents. I guess most of you guys only read one slant of my post and assume that I am biased, or one-eyed or whatever.
[Reg. your comment that I am one-eyed and requiring more research - Hold it guys, I do my blogs/comments mostly after I arrive early at my office desk, well before 8 am; and exactly at 8 am the office proxy blocks all blogs, including this. I am usually racing against time to get references and post my blog before the 8 am cut-off! That is the only reason why I miss out some sources and a little detail as well.]
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-26 04:23:56
But the point is their condemnation of the hullabaloo created by Ponting and Symo.
According to the Oz daily Herald Sun dated 16 Oct: "Former Australian batsmen Allan Border and Mark Waugh have accused Symonds of being precious after he confirmed he was the victim of monkey chants in Vadodara."
Agreed it was the journo's viewpoint that both Waugh and Border felt the same way, though in the exact quotes by the ex-players in the article, 'precious' was attributed to Waugh. But not just Herald Sun, most of the media cited both names calling Symo 'precious'.
You said I convince none else except me that Symo is complaining too much. How come 'Mark' Waugh and Border say the same thing I said? That was a plain, honest viewpoint from a neutral stance. It needs a little bit of balanced, unbiased thinking to sum up what happened in Vadodara. One should rather keeping flared up passions and misplaced patriotism aside, and look at what happened and match it against the attention the incident got. An unbiased viewpoint will automatically surface then.
You continue to say that CA takes action against erring spectators. But the truth is they never did against those who abused Monty. Did they? Obviously the spectators would have gone home, if you talk of action 24 hours after the incident. CA spoke a lot. But did little. One hopes they would later this year when India tours there.
Listen, I am not biased in favour of India. I dont approve of the joker Niranjan Shah, the BCCI official who said that 'monkey' was not a racist comment and Symo had misunderstood because he couldnt decipher the language. He also said that people dress as monkeys in the honour of the monkey-God Hanuman. And hence he suggested that it was not derogatory. This is plain bull. He was more pathetic than the abusive spectators. It was only after the ICC persisted that BCCI accepted that it was indeed racist abuse.
When calling a spade, 'a spade', you fire on both fronts, your own goal as well as the opponents. I guess most of you guys only read one slant of my post and assume that I am biased, or one-eyed or whatever.
[Reg. your comment that I am one-eyed and requiring more research - Hold it guys, I do my blogs/comments mostly after I arrive early at my office desk, well before 8 am; and exactly at 8 am the office proxy blocks all blogs, including this. I am usually racing against time to get references and post my blog before the 8 am cut-off! That is the only reason why I miss out some sources and a little detail as well.]
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-26 04:23:56
Hanuman - Forgot to add that the Indian police have already arrested the erring spectators. Wanna source? Can give it to you, if u need. Were any arrests made on the Monty episode at Sydney last year?
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-26 04:33:27
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-26 04:33:27
http://www.sportsfreak.co.nz/show-column.asp?ID=393
This is a good read. It dissects the "racism" sentiments and why Symo was given monkey chants instead of say Lara or Sanath. The reality Indians are childish are petty in many ways. Love the point about being a show pony.
Posted by Radiohead on 2007-10-26 04:56:13
This is a good read. It dissects the "racism" sentiments and why Symo was given monkey chants instead of say Lara or Sanath. The reality Indians are childish are petty in many ways. Love the point about being a show pony.
Posted by Radiohead on 2007-10-26 04:56:13
"Timbo: You said "I still think you (and the rest of the Indian media) seem to find it much more convenient to blame the abusEE instead of the abusER." Why do you think I never blamed the abuser? I've always said the crowds and Sreesanth are to be blamed for perpetrating the incidents."
Because you are still making accusations about Symonds "filling the media everyday since it happened" and your tone disgusts me. He has done no such thing I stand by my comment: You would rather make Symonds out to be the bad guy when in actual fact he is the VICTIM here.
"Timbo: You misquoted me on this one: You quoted one half of my line "Though BCCI initially issued stupid denials, probably at ICC’s nod," you stopped there, and asked for the source.
It now appears you didn't read the next four words of that sentence which read "did take action eventually." In plain english, that means that BCCI took action only upon ICC's nod."
This is exactly what I want you to quote your source about Mahesh.
Why do you think the BCCI were holding back waiting for the "ICC's nod"? Why does the BCCI need permission from another cricketing body before they can investigate racist behaviour in their own country?
Quote your source please. Where did you get this information? (or did you make it up because it might excuse the BCCI's shoddy behaviour?)
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-26 09:03:18
Yeah never let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh. Yeah the articles say both but they were wrong and you compounded the error by repeating it.
You say Roy created this hullabaloo. He didn't. The racist spectators did (issue 1) and then the BCCI denials compounded it (issue 2). Your portrayal of Roy as a cry baby is just an outright attack without justification (issue 3). Issue 1 - every country has racists. Issue 2 - not every country denies it. Issue 3 - you have completely failed to justify your attack on Roy.
"Symonds said a hundred times". Still waiting for even 5 quotes. Perhaps even one is too much?
It appears my normal IP has beened nobbled, if true just say so and I won't post any more.
Posted by Hanuman by Proxy on 2007-10-26 10:45:38
You say Roy created this hullabaloo. He didn't. The racist spectators did (issue 1) and then the BCCI denials compounded it (issue 2). Your portrayal of Roy as a cry baby is just an outright attack without justification (issue 3). Issue 1 - every country has racists. Issue 2 - not every country denies it. Issue 3 - you have completely failed to justify your attack on Roy.
"Symonds said a hundred times". Still waiting for even 5 quotes. Perhaps even one is too much?
It appears my normal IP has beened nobbled, if true just say so and I won't post any more.
Posted by Hanuman by Proxy on 2007-10-26 10:45:38
hanuman, obviously the "symonds said a hundred times" quote was purposely done to emphasise what he feels symonds has done. dont take it so literally.
and mahesh, symo was not being a crybaby - he stated that he didn't want this to be a big deal. i guess i can see where your coming from - you probably think he purposely said that to make everyone think that he's not making a fuss, when that initial action of notifying the authorities infact did make a big fuss... but honestly i dont think he would have known that this problem would have got so much media attention. He is used to playing for qld against nsw wiht like 10 spectators (source: www.hanumanisanidiot.com), and he couldnt comprehend the pressure of having 1 billion people studying his every move. and to make matters worse, he stated that the indians celebrated too much after their T20 win, before the series begun which got him off on the wrong foot in a cricketcrazy nation. Is this the first time he's been to india? i dont think it is, but if it is.. then theres more support for his initial naivity (and you cant blame him).
and to go along with radiohead -
http://www.sportsfreak.co.nz/show-column.asp?ID=393 is infact a very good read. the indians were not being racist, they were just childish and as i said - symonds didnt help with his comments before the series even begun.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-26 14:03:42
and mahesh, symo was not being a crybaby - he stated that he didn't want this to be a big deal. i guess i can see where your coming from - you probably think he purposely said that to make everyone think that he's not making a fuss, when that initial action of notifying the authorities infact did make a big fuss... but honestly i dont think he would have known that this problem would have got so much media attention. He is used to playing for qld against nsw wiht like 10 spectators (source: www.hanumanisanidiot.com), and he couldnt comprehend the pressure of having 1 billion people studying his every move. and to make matters worse, he stated that the indians celebrated too much after their T20 win, before the series begun which got him off on the wrong foot in a cricketcrazy nation. Is this the first time he's been to india? i dont think it is, but if it is.. then theres more support for his initial naivity (and you cant blame him).
and to go along with radiohead -
http://www.sportsfreak.co.nz/show-column.asp?ID=393 is infact a very good read. the indians were not being racist, they were just childish and as i said - symonds didnt help with his comments before the series even begun.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-26 14:03:42
"the indians were not being racist, they were just childish..."
"He is used to playing for qld against nsw wiht like 10 spectators (source: www.hanumanisanidiot.com)..."
Posted by TA on 2007-10-26 16:37:56
"He is used to playing for qld against nsw wiht like 10 spectators (source: www.hanumanisanidiot.com)..."
Posted by TA on 2007-10-26 16:37:56
Hanuman, certain IP addresses are blocked but mostly spammers, bots and overt racists. What's your IP (find it at whatsmyipaddress.com) - if it's accidentally been blacklisted, I'll allow it.
Posted by JC on 2007-10-26 16:41:19
Posted by JC on 2007-10-26 16:41:19
Ah b*gger that johan, Mahesh threw some mud that was without basis and has been called to account.
Roy is an outstanding bloke that deserves to be defended from crap like this.
Posted by Hanuman by Proxy on 2007-10-26 16:44:02
Roy is an outstanding bloke that deserves to be defended from crap like this.
Posted by Hanuman by Proxy on 2007-10-26 16:44:02
JC it's 203.49.xxx.xxx
I think it changes though.
Do you have a list of posting rules ie do's and don't's?
Posted by Hanuman by Proxy on 2007-10-26 17:04:02
I think it changes though.
Do you have a list of posting rules ie do's and don't's?
Posted by Hanuman by Proxy on 2007-10-26 17:04:02
No IP starting with 203.49 is blocked so I don't know what's going on there. As for posting rules, the only one is 'no racism'
Posted by JC on 2007-10-26 18:17:22
Posted by JC on 2007-10-26 18:17:22
Thanks JC.
Access has come back on late this afternoon.
Cheers
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-26 18:32:23
Access has come back on late this afternoon.
Cheers
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-26 18:32:23
Timbo - I said BCCI took action only upon ICC's nod, yes. Read this
"The ICC has sent a please explain to both the BCCI and Pakistan Cricket Board asking for details of alleged racism following media reports in both countries. ... "The responsibility of members is quite clear," the ICC spokesman said. "If they're not implementing or they don't feel it's appropriate to implement it (the ICC's anti-racism code) we need to know why...."We're waiting to hear back from the PCB and the BCCI."
Clearly, BCCI began its action only after being asked to do so by ICC.
Reg Symo/Ponting being crybabies.. I said "may not be exactly so.. but kept talking to the media about it again and again". Yeah, a hundred times is a matter of expression, but you just got to follow the media from Oct 15th for about a week. Almost every day, there was some new comment from Ponting and Symo (more from Ponting).
Well... you dont keep talking about it again and again, if you were not hurt.
Specifically, Symo did not deserve the abuse. He did nothing to trigger the racial taunts. He did not behave disgracefully like a McGrath or a Lehmann and yet he was taunted.
The crowd erred in behaviour. Finally, there was action thanx to the Australian photographer, and later ICC's push.. and four miscreants were arrested.
If you view the entire incident from a macro perspective, it seems to me that after being repeatedly beaten by the Aussies for a long, long time (save for some time in 1998 and the 2001 home series), and hurt by Aussie sledging and aggression for years, the Indian crowds were just waiting for payback time. With newfound aggression backed by a 20-20 victory, the crowds used this series as a stage for settling scores. In someway they managed to hurt Ponting, the skipper. Am in no way justifying what the crowds did. Am trying to analyse the motive.
Ponting rightly said Indian players must be embarassed. He also said the Indian players did not apologise to Symo.
To sum up the Indian perspective on the whole incident, however shameful, I post extracts of a viewpoint I received from an Indian friend, who is a huge follower of Aussie cricket.
"Crowds have come to be entertained and they also would like to entertain. If these kids (who got arrested) deserve what they got for mentally agonising the handsome chap (Symo), then McGra should be hanged in public for asking Saravan 'how is lara's dick?'. The SAfrican Allan Donald reportedly wondered about Dravid's mother's chastity when Dravid lofted him for a straight six. Donald continues to breathe fresh open air.
I think the Aussies did not bargain for our spectacular show in T-20 first, such verbal aggression by the young turks during the series, and they also realised that the series was far closer than the scoreline revealed. Add all these to one more loss in T-20.... It was extremely amusing to see some blokes like Gilley, McGill and Ponting question Indians' new found aggression and suggest that it is not their natural emotion! Thats how I feel like. If you think we are feigning it, so be it. Still who r u to question it? That means it hurts you somewhere. And that is the idea. To hurt you. You have been at it for too long.
I dont believe that unless you play well like them, you cant be verbally aggressive. On the contrary, if this gives a certain psychological edge, go ahead and do it. For too long, we have been taking this crap and taking things lying down. And its time to pay them Oz back in their own coin."
However misplaced and debatable, this kind of sums up the Indian sentiment for me.
As for my opinion, Indians should back their aggression with solid consistent performance, like Oz have done for years now. Once they do so, the aggro may attract lesser condemnation.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-27 00:26:57
"The ICC has sent a please explain to both the BCCI and Pakistan Cricket Board asking for details of alleged racism following media reports in both countries. ... "The responsibility of members is quite clear," the ICC spokesman said. "If they're not implementing or they don't feel it's appropriate to implement it (the ICC's anti-racism code) we need to know why...."We're waiting to hear back from the PCB and the BCCI."
Clearly, BCCI began its action only after being asked to do so by ICC.
Reg Symo/Ponting being crybabies.. I said "may not be exactly so.. but kept talking to the media about it again and again". Yeah, a hundred times is a matter of expression, but you just got to follow the media from Oct 15th for about a week. Almost every day, there was some new comment from Ponting and Symo (more from Ponting).
Well... you dont keep talking about it again and again, if you were not hurt.
Specifically, Symo did not deserve the abuse. He did nothing to trigger the racial taunts. He did not behave disgracefully like a McGrath or a Lehmann and yet he was taunted.
The crowd erred in behaviour. Finally, there was action thanx to the Australian photographer, and later ICC's push.. and four miscreants were arrested.
If you view the entire incident from a macro perspective, it seems to me that after being repeatedly beaten by the Aussies for a long, long time (save for some time in 1998 and the 2001 home series), and hurt by Aussie sledging and aggression for years, the Indian crowds were just waiting for payback time. With newfound aggression backed by a 20-20 victory, the crowds used this series as a stage for settling scores. In someway they managed to hurt Ponting, the skipper. Am in no way justifying what the crowds did. Am trying to analyse the motive.
Ponting rightly said Indian players must be embarassed. He also said the Indian players did not apologise to Symo.
To sum up the Indian perspective on the whole incident, however shameful, I post extracts of a viewpoint I received from an Indian friend, who is a huge follower of Aussie cricket.
"Crowds have come to be entertained and they also would like to entertain. If these kids (who got arrested) deserve what they got for mentally agonising the handsome chap (Symo), then McGra should be hanged in public for asking Saravan 'how is lara's dick?'. The SAfrican Allan Donald reportedly wondered about Dravid's mother's chastity when Dravid lofted him for a straight six. Donald continues to breathe fresh open air.
I think the Aussies did not bargain for our spectacular show in T-20 first, such verbal aggression by the young turks during the series, and they also realised that the series was far closer than the scoreline revealed. Add all these to one more loss in T-20.... It was extremely amusing to see some blokes like Gilley, McGill and Ponting question Indians' new found aggression and suggest that it is not their natural emotion! Thats how I feel like. If you think we are feigning it, so be it. Still who r u to question it? That means it hurts you somewhere. And that is the idea. To hurt you. You have been at it for too long.
I dont believe that unless you play well like them, you cant be verbally aggressive. On the contrary, if this gives a certain psychological edge, go ahead and do it. For too long, we have been taking this crap and taking things lying down. And its time to pay them Oz back in their own coin."
However misplaced and debatable, this kind of sums up the Indian sentiment for me.
As for my opinion, Indians should back their aggression with solid consistent performance, like Oz have done for years now. Once they do so, the aggro may attract lesser condemnation.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-27 00:26:57
my god your kidding right? ponting said that the players have to apologise?? hahaha typical punter.. man it would have been so much better if warney wasnt a pervert, such a better captain. Personally, i was not a fan of Ponting getting hte captaincy - not only because he is a Tasmanian and im from NSW (ouch damn! is that racist??) - but also because of his arrogance and double standards in almost everything.
that is a joke honestly, why are players held accountable all the time? Like nobody apologised to Andre Nel when Seth Efrica were over here, nobody apologised to Makhya Ntini? And i think thats the right way to go, the players shouldnt be held responsible for a bunch of tossers trying to have a bit of fun.
It wasnt ponting's fault that some Aussie supporters said the K word to Nel, just like it wasn't Dhoni's fault that the Indian crowd were having a go at Symonds. (I still think there was no racism intended, just majorly blown out of proportion by the Indian media, and now their Australian counterparts will feed off this frenzy)... god i hate the media.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-27 01:31:48
that is a joke honestly, why are players held accountable all the time? Like nobody apologised to Andre Nel when Seth Efrica were over here, nobody apologised to Makhya Ntini? And i think thats the right way to go, the players shouldnt be held responsible for a bunch of tossers trying to have a bit of fun.
It wasnt ponting's fault that some Aussie supporters said the K word to Nel, just like it wasn't Dhoni's fault that the Indian crowd were having a go at Symonds. (I still think there was no racism intended, just majorly blown out of proportion by the Indian media, and now their Australian counterparts will feed off this frenzy)... god i hate the media.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-27 01:31:48
From an Aussie macro perspective, we have been copping this type of approach for years from the English, the Saffa's, the Kiwis and now it's India's turn. The Sri Lankans are the only ones to retain their self respect (bar Ranatunga).
Same indignant yelps, different country.
All comers have come out with the line about matching the verbal and bar the Pom's (who were lucky in 05 and paid the price in 06/07) have been sent home with their tails between their legs to consult their Psychologists.
I've got to wonder what Indian children get taught at school, McGrath must be the most quoted man in India. For the record yeah McG was insulting but is that justification for Indians being racist in return 10 years later.
Strangely, calling Eddo Brandes fat doesn't seem to get the same attention. Is it because Sarwan has Indian heritage. Same for the Monty issue. I would have thought Nel being called a ***** would be at the apex of sins committed by Aussies.
Again strangely it always seems like an incident involving some other country's player gets added into the pot - Donald.
You guys seem to have this massive inventory of past insults festering in your brains. I reckon if I named a series between any two teams in any year you could point out an insult to either an Indian spectator, official or player.
Yeah Punter is hurt - LMAO (trust me I'm giggling at the thought). The fact that you even think he has been hurt just reinforces the fact you don't understand us or him.
Punter and Gilly are right in they feel it is not their natural emotion. One of the outstanding traits of your culture is its focus or virtue in being polite to one and all. Aussies don't have that exact value system or virtue, we are shit stirrers and fighters. Respect and friendship are things that are earnt after a fight. Contrast Sree and Sachins' reputations in Aus.
Roy's comments when pressed by the Indian media went like this. Stage 1 - yes I was abused racially. Stage 2 - I'm hurt that I've been called a liar by the BCCI. Stage 3 - I call on Aussies not to do this on the return leg. Pretty hard to fault him but you have certainly tried with insuations and falsehoods, he deserves better.
Now Roy did display his ignorance of the Indian culture by criticising the celebrations. Over the top celebrations are the antithesis of being Aussie but he should have known that burning houses or massive celebrations etc is the norm and not projected his values on India.
The "payback" does show how acute the Brave New Indian pysche has become to criticism though. As an observer I'd suggest its not a virtue to cultivate.
Your friend seems to think being verbally aggressive will give your team a boost. Big friendly hint - no it won't but it will play into our hands. We fight harder when pissed off. So please don't embarrass yourselves and just play good cricket and be friendly (ie confuse the shit out of us), that's your best hope for winning.
To sum up, India is facing a very similar situation to what Aus did in 05/06 with SA. The sooner you acknowledge the problem the sooner you can fix it.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-27 02:25:37
Same indignant yelps, different country.
All comers have come out with the line about matching the verbal and bar the Pom's (who were lucky in 05 and paid the price in 06/07) have been sent home with their tails between their legs to consult their Psychologists.
I've got to wonder what Indian children get taught at school, McGrath must be the most quoted man in India. For the record yeah McG was insulting but is that justification for Indians being racist in return 10 years later.
Strangely, calling Eddo Brandes fat doesn't seem to get the same attention. Is it because Sarwan has Indian heritage. Same for the Monty issue. I would have thought Nel being called a ***** would be at the apex of sins committed by Aussies.
Again strangely it always seems like an incident involving some other country's player gets added into the pot - Donald.
You guys seem to have this massive inventory of past insults festering in your brains. I reckon if I named a series between any two teams in any year you could point out an insult to either an Indian spectator, official or player.
Yeah Punter is hurt - LMAO (trust me I'm giggling at the thought). The fact that you even think he has been hurt just reinforces the fact you don't understand us or him.
Punter and Gilly are right in they feel it is not their natural emotion. One of the outstanding traits of your culture is its focus or virtue in being polite to one and all. Aussies don't have that exact value system or virtue, we are shit stirrers and fighters. Respect and friendship are things that are earnt after a fight. Contrast Sree and Sachins' reputations in Aus.
Roy's comments when pressed by the Indian media went like this. Stage 1 - yes I was abused racially. Stage 2 - I'm hurt that I've been called a liar by the BCCI. Stage 3 - I call on Aussies not to do this on the return leg. Pretty hard to fault him but you have certainly tried with insuations and falsehoods, he deserves better.
Now Roy did display his ignorance of the Indian culture by criticising the celebrations. Over the top celebrations are the antithesis of being Aussie but he should have known that burning houses or massive celebrations etc is the norm and not projected his values on India.
The "payback" does show how acute the Brave New Indian pysche has become to criticism though. As an observer I'd suggest its not a virtue to cultivate.
Your friend seems to think being verbally aggressive will give your team a boost. Big friendly hint - no it won't but it will play into our hands. We fight harder when pissed off. So please don't embarrass yourselves and just play good cricket and be friendly (ie confuse the shit out of us), that's your best hope for winning.
To sum up, India is facing a very similar situation to what Aus did in 05/06 with SA. The sooner you acknowledge the problem the sooner you can fix it.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-27 02:25:37
Hanuman - Very true that the sooner we acknowledge the problem the sooner we can fix it.
The problem is: how to be as agressive (if not as much, at least somewhere thereabouts) as Ozzies, and keep winning consistently as well. It is too heady a combination to achieve and maintain.
Well, until Border began the winning streak for Ozzies, Windies were consistent winners. And they did so without any non-cricketing methods of aggression. Though sledging kinda aggro may have deeper roots in Oz, I think they surfaced from Border's reign only. No wonder, he was not perturbed at all by the recent crowd taunts in India. He's seen it all. Done it all. Yet, won it all.
Anyway, the current yardstick has been laid down by the Ozzies. i.e. be uttterly aggro and win as well. What's disturbing and confusing is the 'hurt' attitude portrayed by Symo and Ponting. This is something new that's coming out from the Ozzies.
You said "Yeah Punter is hurt - LMAO (trust me I'm giggling at the thought). The fact that you even think he has been hurt just reinforces the fact you don't understand us or him."
Ponting didn't say he was hurt, but was overprotective of strong Symo that he kept complaining to the media again and again (if you want sources, please read newspapers.. they are all over, from Oct 13th to the latest one on Oct 23rd after the Oz team landed home)
Why would anybody complain if he was not hurt?
But, whilst Symo said he was not hurt, Ponting said Symo was. Confusion? If you think I am making this up, read Symonds own version on Oct 21in Herald Sun:
"While it's certainly been a challenging chapter in my cricket career, it hasn't left me hurt or scarred. But I have been slightly embarrassed by it all."
But Ponting had already written in the same paper:
"Andrew is hurt at the crowd behaviour but we've been told action has been taken"
The truth is Aussie pride was stirred, if not shaken. Now, that's a small victory, by any means. Let's wait and watch if India is able to continue the stir and shake on the cricket field down under.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-27 06:02:46
The problem is: how to be as agressive (if not as much, at least somewhere thereabouts) as Ozzies, and keep winning consistently as well. It is too heady a combination to achieve and maintain.
Well, until Border began the winning streak for Ozzies, Windies were consistent winners. And they did so without any non-cricketing methods of aggression. Though sledging kinda aggro may have deeper roots in Oz, I think they surfaced from Border's reign only. No wonder, he was not perturbed at all by the recent crowd taunts in India. He's seen it all. Done it all. Yet, won it all.
Anyway, the current yardstick has been laid down by the Ozzies. i.e. be uttterly aggro and win as well. What's disturbing and confusing is the 'hurt' attitude portrayed by Symo and Ponting. This is something new that's coming out from the Ozzies.
You said "Yeah Punter is hurt - LMAO (trust me I'm giggling at the thought). The fact that you even think he has been hurt just reinforces the fact you don't understand us or him."
Ponting didn't say he was hurt, but was overprotective of strong Symo that he kept complaining to the media again and again (if you want sources, please read newspapers.. they are all over, from Oct 13th to the latest one on Oct 23rd after the Oz team landed home)
Why would anybody complain if he was not hurt?
But, whilst Symo said he was not hurt, Ponting said Symo was. Confusion? If you think I am making this up, read Symonds own version on Oct 21in Herald Sun:
"While it's certainly been a challenging chapter in my cricket career, it hasn't left me hurt or scarred. But I have been slightly embarrassed by it all."
But Ponting had already written in the same paper:
"Andrew is hurt at the crowd behaviour but we've been told action has been taken"
The truth is Aussie pride was stirred, if not shaken. Now, that's a small victory, by any means. Let's wait and watch if India is able to continue the stir and shake on the cricket field down under.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-27 06:02:46
Your an idiot Mahesh you are now clearly supporting racial abuse. Glad to see you are a man of principle.
Lets wait for that one idiot redneck in the crowd to start on the Indian players and see where your principles are Mahesh.
Also the only thing that dents Australian pride is losing games.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-27 11:46:36
Lets wait for that one idiot redneck in the crowd to start on the Indian players and see where your principles are Mahesh.
Also the only thing that dents Australian pride is losing games.
Posted by Andrew on 2007-10-27 11:46:36
"The truth is Aussie pride was stirred, if not shaken. Now, that's a small victory, by any means."
Mahesh if you are claiming a small victory then it shows that you condone the racist behaviour.
As a somewhat civilised person I would be ashamed.
Pride relates to feeling satisfaction in attaining an achievement. How can that be shaken or stirred by racist behaviour. Did the racist behaviour diminish the achievement of beating India in India?
As Andrew said the only dent to our pride was being beaten on the field.
The racist behaviour and denials by the BCCI certainly did stir and shake us to the extent that we were gobsmacked by the Indian lack of hospitality and sense of fair play. As I said an unfortunate side effect of the Brave New India phenomenon.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-27 14:31:17
Mahesh if you are claiming a small victory then it shows that you condone the racist behaviour.
As a somewhat civilised person I would be ashamed.
Pride relates to feeling satisfaction in attaining an achievement. How can that be shaken or stirred by racist behaviour. Did the racist behaviour diminish the achievement of beating India in India?
As Andrew said the only dent to our pride was being beaten on the field.
The racist behaviour and denials by the BCCI certainly did stir and shake us to the extent that we were gobsmacked by the Indian lack of hospitality and sense of fair play. As I said an unfortunate side effect of the Brave New India phenomenon.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-27 14:31:17
Mahesh - "The truth is Aussie pride was stirred, if not shaken. Now, that's a small victory, by any means."
Hanuman - "Mahesh if you are claiming a small victory then it shows that you condone the racist behaviour."
to hanuman:
I really do hate pauline hanson, but i always wanted to say this lol - Please Explain?
How does claiming a small psychological victory show that he condones racist behaviour?
Posted by I love Sydney on 2007-10-27 17:38:06
Hanuman - "Mahesh if you are claiming a small victory then it shows that you condone the racist behaviour."
to hanuman:
I really do hate pauline hanson, but i always wanted to say this lol - Please Explain?
How does claiming a small psychological victory show that he condones racist behaviour?
Posted by I love Sydney on 2007-10-27 17:38:06
Mahesh is saying the racist taunts upset Aus and as a result he in claiming a small victory. If he is claiming a victory he is saying the actions taken to supposedly upset the Aussies were valid and therefore legitimate.
If he seriously deplored the racist actions he would not be claiming a victory at all.
On Pauline, a few years back I was walking into a polling booth and one her party supporters was handing out how to vote phamphlets and saying vote for Pauline. I said "not in this lifetime buddy!".
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-27 19:56:44
If he seriously deplored the racist actions he would not be claiming a victory at all.
On Pauline, a few years back I was walking into a polling booth and one her party supporters was handing out how to vote phamphlets and saying vote for Pauline. I said "not in this lifetime buddy!".
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-27 19:56:44
Andrew - Please, I don't want to stoop to the level of calling people names.
Andrew/Hanuman - I think we have a problem of understanding here. Or perhaps, a case of selective reading, rather than holistic analysis of the subject.
Like "I love Sydney" has said, me citing a small victory of sorts does NOT amount to condoning racism.
If anybody feels that I condone racism, it shows a lack of understanding of my post.
Those who had the patience to read my post till the last word will know that I ended that "Let's wait and watch if India is able to continue the stir and shake on the cricket field down under." I meant, not through racist and ugly behaviour (including sledging), but by pure cricketing performance. I hope I am talking enough English.
I repeat for better understanding, since some here require reinforcement. I am analysing the motive behind the recent developments in India. The aggression, the crowd behaviour etc. I am in no way condoning the racist behaviour.
I wrote that Oz had set a yardstick. Aggression from both outside and within the boundary. To some extent, the Barmy Army had also contributed to crowd aggro. All teams want to copy the Oz style. The Oz yardstick. If that means aggro on all fronts, that's exactly what teams are turning to, in order to shake or stir the Aussies.
This is by no means saying that 2 wrongs make a thing right. But the truth is Ozzies copyrighted sledging. However clumsy and stupid he looks and behaves, the monkey-faces of Sreesanth is the closest India can get anywhere near Oz in emulating sledging.
For all you know, Oz have inspired aggro behaviour in India. As Ponting has said, it is not the natural trait of Indians to be aggressive, adding that he would wait to see how long the aggro trait prevails amongst the Indian players. When somebody taunts or challenges you like that, something's gonna explode.
Ozzies have been taunting opposition for too long. It has worked for them, those mental games... those macho-talks before any series/tour. Symo, Ponting and Gilly clearly said that Indians were going overboard over the 20-20 victory. What exactly is their problem? People react to victories in different ways. If Ozzies are used to winning and dont generally celebrate like Indians did (airport welcome, parade, et al) that's Oz culture. SouthAfrica won the rugby championship recently, and had a (still are)massive India-like celebration. So there..
India for sure is starved of victories...very rarely does India surface amongst the worlds best on any sporting arena. So, when India gets a chance, they do go overboard. It is part of the culture. You never know when the next chance may come by. So celebrate the present.
In my very first blog on the issue, I said the same Indian crowds also boo their own heroes when they fail badly. Yet, for some reason Hanuman and Andrew feel that I am proud of the Indian crowd.
Let's not spill expletives. Let's be pragmatic. Let's enjoy the game, but let's not be hypocritical or have double standards. Monkey chants or calls of Stupid Indian, are both bad and racist. Likewise, Ozzie sledging and Sreesanth-style monkey-faced sneering are both bad and just not cricket. Will there be a consensus on this, I wonder.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-27 20:47:59
Andrew/Hanuman - I think we have a problem of understanding here. Or perhaps, a case of selective reading, rather than holistic analysis of the subject.
Like "I love Sydney" has said, me citing a small victory of sorts does NOT amount to condoning racism.
If anybody feels that I condone racism, it shows a lack of understanding of my post.
Those who had the patience to read my post till the last word will know that I ended that "Let's wait and watch if India is able to continue the stir and shake on the cricket field down under." I meant, not through racist and ugly behaviour (including sledging), but by pure cricketing performance. I hope I am talking enough English.
I repeat for better understanding, since some here require reinforcement. I am analysing the motive behind the recent developments in India. The aggression, the crowd behaviour etc. I am in no way condoning the racist behaviour.
I wrote that Oz had set a yardstick. Aggression from both outside and within the boundary. To some extent, the Barmy Army had also contributed to crowd aggro. All teams want to copy the Oz style. The Oz yardstick. If that means aggro on all fronts, that's exactly what teams are turning to, in order to shake or stir the Aussies.
This is by no means saying that 2 wrongs make a thing right. But the truth is Ozzies copyrighted sledging. However clumsy and stupid he looks and behaves, the monkey-faces of Sreesanth is the closest India can get anywhere near Oz in emulating sledging.
For all you know, Oz have inspired aggro behaviour in India. As Ponting has said, it is not the natural trait of Indians to be aggressive, adding that he would wait to see how long the aggro trait prevails amongst the Indian players. When somebody taunts or challenges you like that, something's gonna explode.
Ozzies have been taunting opposition for too long. It has worked for them, those mental games... those macho-talks before any series/tour. Symo, Ponting and Gilly clearly said that Indians were going overboard over the 20-20 victory. What exactly is their problem? People react to victories in different ways. If Ozzies are used to winning and dont generally celebrate like Indians did (airport welcome, parade, et al) that's Oz culture. SouthAfrica won the rugby championship recently, and had a (still are)massive India-like celebration. So there..
India for sure is starved of victories...very rarely does India surface amongst the worlds best on any sporting arena. So, when India gets a chance, they do go overboard. It is part of the culture. You never know when the next chance may come by. So celebrate the present.
In my very first blog on the issue, I said the same Indian crowds also boo their own heroes when they fail badly. Yet, for some reason Hanuman and Andrew feel that I am proud of the Indian crowd.
Let's not spill expletives. Let's be pragmatic. Let's enjoy the game, but let's not be hypocritical or have double standards. Monkey chants or calls of Stupid Indian, are both bad and racist. Likewise, Ozzie sledging and Sreesanth-style monkey-faced sneering are both bad and just not cricket. Will there be a consensus on this, I wonder.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-27 20:47:59
I don't know why we disagree so much hanuman, but do you seriously not see a fundamental flaw in logical reasoning with this sentence
"If he is claiming a victory he is saying the actions taken to supposedly upset the Aussies were valid and therefore legitimate."
He is just saying that he feels that the Indian players have got some pscyhological benefit out of this debacle(which was not started by them), he does not ever say that he vouches for what the crowd have done or that he validates it. (your probably aware by now i actually disagree with this point, does nobody else believe that the crowd were not intending to be racist??? looks like im carrying this flag on my own)
I, similar to 'i love sydney' do not see the relationship between claiming a victory and being a racist.
That is a vast generalisation don't you think? he would only be supporting it if he said 'i am supporting it' or 'i dont have a problem with racist behaviour'. Sorry for being so frank, but don't try and manipulate what other people say to undermine their reputation or point of view.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-28 05:42:58
"If he is claiming a victory he is saying the actions taken to supposedly upset the Aussies were valid and therefore legitimate."
He is just saying that he feels that the Indian players have got some pscyhological benefit out of this debacle(which was not started by them), he does not ever say that he vouches for what the crowd have done or that he validates it. (your probably aware by now i actually disagree with this point, does nobody else believe that the crowd were not intending to be racist??? looks like im carrying this flag on my own)
I, similar to 'i love sydney' do not see the relationship between claiming a victory and being a racist.
That is a vast generalisation don't you think? he would only be supporting it if he said 'i am supporting it' or 'i dont have a problem with racist behaviour'. Sorry for being so frank, but don't try and manipulate what other people say to undermine their reputation or point of view.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-28 05:42:58
Oh Mahesh you must have a split personality.
If you accept there was a result from a set of events then logically you must also accept the events to get a result were valid.
The methods of the event were racist (a given by you).
The impact of the events were “hurt” (a given by you).
The outcome of the events was a victory (a statement by you).
By claiming a victory you accept the racist nature of the event were valid. If you did not believe the racist events were acceptable or valid then a victory could not be claimed.
Pure logic. Relatively simple to understand.
Now you have renounced the racism but still claim the victory. Which is it? You can't have both.
"Let's wait and watch if India is able to continue the stir and shake on the cricket field down under."
"Ozzie sledging and Sreesanth-style monkey-faced sneering are both bad and just not cricket. Will there be a consensus on this, I wonder."
Now which way do you want it?
Make a stand it's either bad (from both teams) or it's OK. Don't blast the Aussies and then condone it from the Indians.
"Those who had the patience to read my post till the last word will know that I ended that "Let's wait and watch if India is able to continue the stir and shake on the cricket field down under." I meant, not through racist and ugly behaviour (including sledging), but by pure cricketing performance. I hope I am talking enough English."
LOL - you are back pedalling as fast as you can go.
Your entire post has not even mentioned performance on the field. Words like shake and stir do not relate to cricketing performance they relate to exactly what you intended them to mean.
The previous 6 paragraphs/sentences preceding the above quote from your original post mention the word "hurt". No mention of performance on the field. So it's not being taken out of context.
"He is just saying that..."
Ah Johan now you are becoming an apologist for Mahesh. I'm sure he can defend himself without you trying to interpret his thoughts.
"my god your kidding right? ponting said that the players have to apologise??"
You be better off actually reading what is written.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-28 12:57:31
If you accept there was a result from a set of events then logically you must also accept the events to get a result were valid.
The methods of the event were racist (a given by you).
The impact of the events were “hurt” (a given by you).
The outcome of the events was a victory (a statement by you).
By claiming a victory you accept the racist nature of the event were valid. If you did not believe the racist events were acceptable or valid then a victory could not be claimed.
Pure logic. Relatively simple to understand.
Now you have renounced the racism but still claim the victory. Which is it? You can't have both.
"Let's wait and watch if India is able to continue the stir and shake on the cricket field down under."
"Ozzie sledging and Sreesanth-style monkey-faced sneering are both bad and just not cricket. Will there be a consensus on this, I wonder."
Now which way do you want it?
Make a stand it's either bad (from both teams) or it's OK. Don't blast the Aussies and then condone it from the Indians.
"Those who had the patience to read my post till the last word will know that I ended that "Let's wait and watch if India is able to continue the stir and shake on the cricket field down under." I meant, not through racist and ugly behaviour (including sledging), but by pure cricketing performance. I hope I am talking enough English."
LOL - you are back pedalling as fast as you can go.
Your entire post has not even mentioned performance on the field. Words like shake and stir do not relate to cricketing performance they relate to exactly what you intended them to mean.
The previous 6 paragraphs/sentences preceding the above quote from your original post mention the word "hurt". No mention of performance on the field. So it's not being taken out of context.
"He is just saying that..."
Ah Johan now you are becoming an apologist for Mahesh. I'm sure he can defend himself without you trying to interpret his thoughts.
"my god your kidding right? ponting said that the players have to apologise??"
You be better off actually reading what is written.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-28 12:57:31
Hanuman - My stand? At the moment, both teams have erred. I want both teams to play just cricket and nothing else. That would make the ground even.
Am sure, on the cricketing field, Oz is superior, but let 'em not blunt their cricketing excellence with non-cricketing tactics. Similarly, India should try and emulate Ozzies by winning often, not by making faces and displaying misplaced aggression.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-28 14:43:28
Am sure, on the cricketing field, Oz is superior, but let 'em not blunt their cricketing excellence with non-cricketing tactics. Similarly, India should try and emulate Ozzies by winning often, not by making faces and displaying misplaced aggression.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-28 14:43:28
mate I disagree with Mahesh's principle argument being that monkey chants are racist in India. So i dont see myself as a 'mahesh defender'.
methinks you just go into repeat mode when you are faced with any rebuttal.
and you still haven't clarified the relationship between claiming psychological victory and supporting racism.
"By claiming a victory you accept the racist nature of the event were valid. If you did not believe the racist events were acceptable or valid then a victory could not be claimed. "
This explanation hardly cuts the mustard, he states the supposed racism was not right but it simply eventuated in a slight shock to the Aussies and also gave the indians some psychological edge. Claiming a victory is only linked with the Australian psyche, it has nothing to do with whether the individual in question - mahesh - actually supports what was initially done to get the result.
Your using circular reasoning, which is what idiots do... so please hanuman, i know its hard, but stop being an idiot.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-28 16:44:55
methinks you just go into repeat mode when you are faced with any rebuttal.
and you still haven't clarified the relationship between claiming psychological victory and supporting racism.
"By claiming a victory you accept the racist nature of the event were valid. If you did not believe the racist events were acceptable or valid then a victory could not be claimed. "
This explanation hardly cuts the mustard, he states the supposed racism was not right but it simply eventuated in a slight shock to the Aussies and also gave the indians some psychological edge. Claiming a victory is only linked with the Australian psyche, it has nothing to do with whether the individual in question - mahesh - actually supports what was initially done to get the result.
Your using circular reasoning, which is what idiots do... so please hanuman, i know its hard, but stop being an idiot.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-28 16:44:55
I tried to dumb it down but obviously I failed.
Try this one:
a=b
b=c
Now does c=a?
Stumped?
That's OK just resort to name calling, it'll make you feel better.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-28 20:11:43
Try this one:
a=b
b=c
Now does c=a?
Stumped?
That's OK just resort to name calling, it'll make you feel better.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-28 20:11:43
hanuman,
please research fallacies of arguments. that analogy you provided is an invalid argument. As i stated before, it requires vast generalization.
let me put it into perspective for you. let me replace the a's and b's to show you how it fails.
all apples are blue
all blue things are carrots
therefore all apples are carrots.
taht is an invalid argument, because the fact that their blue is the only THE link between teh two, it doesnt prove that the two seperate things (apples carrots, a's and b's, wahtever u want to say) are equal.
you dig?? its ok if you dont, this is pretty complicated stuff... for a 15 yr old.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-29 00:54:47
please research fallacies of arguments. that analogy you provided is an invalid argument. As i stated before, it requires vast generalization.
let me put it into perspective for you. let me replace the a's and b's to show you how it fails.
all apples are blue
all blue things are carrots
therefore all apples are carrots.
taht is an invalid argument, because the fact that their blue is the only THE link between teh two, it doesnt prove that the two seperate things (apples carrots, a's and b's, wahtever u want to say) are equal.
you dig?? its ok if you dont, this is pretty complicated stuff... for a 15 yr old.
Posted by Johan on 2007-10-29 00:54:47
Dude, premise one has to be congruent with premise two before a conclusion can be reached. In your example (apples and carrots) premise two directly contradicts premise one. If you replace apples and carrots with unknowns then the argument would be valid. For example.
All men are mortal
All mortal things are human
Therefore all men are humans.
Here’s a fallacious argument.
Idiots can’t construct fallacious arguments
Johan can’t construct a fallacious argument
Therefore Johan is an ?
Here is a valid argument:
Only idiots can’t construct a fallacious argument
Johan can’t construct a fallacious argument
Therefore Johan is an ?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-29 02:56:04
All men are mortal
All mortal things are human
Therefore all men are humans.
Here’s a fallacious argument.
Idiots can’t construct fallacious arguments
Johan can’t construct a fallacious argument
Therefore Johan is an ?
Here is a valid argument:
Only idiots can’t construct a fallacious argument
Johan can’t construct a fallacious argument
Therefore Johan is an ?
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-29 02:56:04
"Clearly, BCCI began its action only after being asked to do so by ICC."
EXACTLY! Thats not giving a "NOD"!! That's ASKING the BCCI to take the action that IS REQUIRED. "Nod" implies the BCCI were waiting for CA to give them the "nod" to pursue the racists. That is utterly ridiculous, they weren't waiting for anyone they were just ignoring the issue. I don't think your grasp of English is this bad Mahesh, you use spin all too well.
"Yeah, a hundred times is a matter of expression."
NO, its a gross exaggeration.
"Well... you dont keep talking about it again and again, if you were not hurt."
You do if the media is constantly asking you about it. Players don't get a choice in what questions they are asked, and as I have said it was a scandal. They players will be ASKED repeatedly the same question and the Aussies are not going to lie about it.
So your Indian friend believes that the crowd can behave like racists and the Indian governing body can ignore the issue until compelled to take action because ex-players (like McGrath) used to sledge on-field?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!
"As for my opinion, Indians should back their aggression with solid consistent performance, like Oz have done for years now. Once they do so, the aggro may attract lesser condemnation."
I'm happy for the Indians to be aggressive. Nobody is asking them not to be, you seem to be taking this argument to different places.
What I want you to do is to STOP blaming Symonds and Ponting for speaking the truth in media interviews. Yes, they were abused by the crowd, and yes it did hurt. That doesn't tmake them crybabies, it just makes them honest.
And you repeatedly call Symonds "Strong Symo" because of this. Grow up Mahesh.
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-29 12:26:47
Hypocrisy at it best…
While the Australian cricket team so concern about racist comments made against them by some people in Indian cricket ground, Australian cricket captain made the following statement/remark (or something every similar – I can not remember the exact word by word) during a press conference
“Murali and Sri Lankan cricket team should EXPECT from the Australian crowd calling ‘No Ball’ when Murali starts bowling”
I do not know whether the Australian cricket captain got balls between his legs…!
When Australian do something it is okay and when the same things (even less damaging) is done by others they (Australian) all drop their pants and run around the world… look at us… look at us… what these people are doing to our innocent (Australian) people
Just look at the convicted terrorist David Hick he is so innocent, why because he is Australian. Then again look at the Schapelle Corby she is presumed innocent by many Australian… can you guess why… of course an Australian…..
Maybe we can come up with following equation:
Australian = Always Innocent
We just have to wait and see how the Australian cricket fans behave when Murali starts bowling…. It would be interesting hear what the Australian Cricket Fans have to say after that
Posted by LordofCricketGame on 2007-10-29 14:29:36
While the Australian cricket team so concern about racist comments made against them by some people in Indian cricket ground, Australian cricket captain made the following statement/remark (or something every similar – I can not remember the exact word by word) during a press conference
“Murali and Sri Lankan cricket team should EXPECT from the Australian crowd calling ‘No Ball’ when Murali starts bowling”
I do not know whether the Australian cricket captain got balls between his legs…!
When Australian do something it is okay and when the same things (even less damaging) is done by others they (Australian) all drop their pants and run around the world… look at us… look at us… what these people are doing to our innocent (Australian) people
Just look at the convicted terrorist David Hick he is so innocent, why because he is Australian. Then again look at the Schapelle Corby she is presumed innocent by many Australian… can you guess why… of course an Australian…..
Maybe we can come up with following equation:
Australian = Always Innocent
We just have to wait and see how the Australian cricket fans behave when Murali starts bowling…. It would be interesting hear what the Australian Cricket Fans have to say after that
Posted by LordofCricketGame on 2007-10-29 14:29:36
Read this story LCG it'll make you feel a little better.
the ugly truth and the path to redemption
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-29 16:42:42
the ugly truth and the path to redemption
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-29 16:42:42
I don't think the Australians used to complain or cry foul in the 80s and 90s. It is a new thing for them. Border never complained. Steve Waugh never complained. Their toughness was consistent. No double standards. They sledged, but never complained if their opponents did too.
The 'mummy-he-pinched-me' type of whining is a new thing that has surfaced amongst the Oz.
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-30 04:57:38
The 'mummy-he-pinched-me' type of whining is a new thing that has surfaced amongst the Oz.
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-30 04:57:38
Apparently the world has changed and racism isn't something to be tolerated even by Australians.
Or perhaps it's this.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-30 09:21:14
Or perhaps it's this.
Posted by Hanuman on 2007-10-30 09:21:14
Great links Hanuman!
I think they say it all. The spirit of cricket is alive and well in the Australian team and has been since the Waugh era.
The current team cannot be blamed for any alleged grievances caused by their predecessors.
And they most certainly can't be blamed for answering questions from the media truthfully.
Now you are just trolling Mahesh.
Or you are still upset ("crying?") because Australia so convincingly destroyed your ODI team at home immediately after the Fluff20 world cup celebrations?
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-30 10:55:06
I think they say it all. The spirit of cricket is alive and well in the Australian team and has been since the Waugh era.
The current team cannot be blamed for any alleged grievances caused by their predecessors.
And they most certainly can't be blamed for answering questions from the media truthfully.
"The 'mummy-he-pinched-me' type of whining is a new thing that has surfaced amongst the Oz."
Now you are just trolling Mahesh.
Or you are still upset ("crying?") because Australia so convincingly destroyed your ODI team at home immediately after the Fluff20 world cup celebrations?
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-30 10:55:06
Timbo - Clearly, you are confusing 2 things here. Winning and complaining. Nobody questioned (you just cant) Aussie supremacy at the game.
Nobody cries after being beaten by Oz, because it almost a foregone conclusion.
That Oz incessantly whined was surprising. They dont normally do. That is the subject here.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-30 14:37:39
Nobody cries after being beaten by Oz, because it almost a foregone conclusion.
That Oz incessantly whined was surprising. They dont normally do. That is the subject here.
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-30 14:37:39
"That Oz incessantly whined was surprising. They dont normally do. That is the subject here."
Fine. Why don't you link to some quotes where they are "incessantly whining" and not just responding to media interest by stating the facts about an ugly situation.
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-31 10:26:25
Timbo
On casual checking, I found articles almost on a daily basis with quotes from Ponting and Symonds.
I mean, there is a limit on how much time you spend on this issue.
Read on:
Oct 17- Cricinfo:
Ricky Ponting, the Australian captain, said the team was disappointed that the same behaviour had been repeated at various grounds. "Andrew is hurt at the crowd behaviour but we've been told action has been taken," he said. "But some of the stuff that happens is totally unacceptable and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. I'm sure there are a lot of people in India that would be embarrassed by the incident. "It is done now, hopefully in the Twenty20 match on Saturday it does not happen there."
Oct 17 – Daily Telegraph
"It would be disappointing if someone is accusing him of lying as we all know that is not the case," Ponting said. "It wouldn't be written up in a match report if it wasn't true.
Oct 23 – Cricinfo
The Daily Telegraph reported that during Saturday's Twenty20 match at Mumbai's Brabourne Stadium calls of "go home Symonds" and "Symonds sucks" were heard from the crowd.
"I am not sure why every time Symmo's name is mentioned or he comes on the screen that they boo him," Ponting said in the paper.
Oct 22 – Daily Telegraph
The Aussie skipper also revealed that the Indian players made no attempt to apologise to him for their fans' racist behaviour.
"They should be (embarrassed) because I would've been (if it happened) in Australia," Ponting said.
"It affected him (Symonds) but he didn't want it to become such a huge issue. He wanted to be able to have it dealt with by the appropriate people and be able to distance himself from it."
"I'd like to see the Australian fans and public treat the Indians as they would any other team," Ponting said.
"We've got a lot of cricket against them over the next couple of months and it will be interesting to see how long a lot of that aggression lasts."
Oct 20 – Daily Telegraph
"Over the past couple of weeks I felt I have been put in a situation not of my making," said Symonds, who is of West Indian lineage… "Anyone who knows me will understand that being a focus of this particular story is something I am not comfortable with."…. "I have never made a complaint at any venue but I did answer media questions asking whether I'd heard the chanting aimed at me at Vadodara," Symonds said. "I said at the time that I wasn't particularly bothered by it and tried to diffuse the original situation by interacting with the crowd.
(Ponting:) It was very disappointing to see all that stuff happen the other night and a few arrests were made as a result. You would think that people seeing that would wise up a little bit," he said.
Ponting said Symonds was putting on a brave face despite his "unflappable" exterior.
"There is no doubt it has had some effect. It has been going for a week and half which is no fault of his," Ponting said.
Oct 19 – Daily Telegraph
Speaking after the two-wicket loss, Ponting said the taunts were "totally unnecessary".
"Andrew is hurt at the crowd behaviour but we've been told action has been taken," he said.
"I just hope that does not happen again in another cricket venue that I play in because it leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth."
Oct 17 – Daily Telegraph
"I know the match referee (Chris Broad) knows about it. If the ICC gets it in the report they have to do something," Ponting said. "Racism is unacceptable anywhere in the world. You don't expect it to happen when you step out on the field.
"We did not expect it and we do not expect it to happen again."
"I am a pretty liberal sort of bloke but racism is a big issue in world sport, not just cricket," Symonds wrote.
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-31 15:02:22
On casual checking, I found articles almost on a daily basis with quotes from Ponting and Symonds.
I mean, there is a limit on how much time you spend on this issue.
Read on:
Oct 17- Cricinfo:
Ricky Ponting, the Australian captain, said the team was disappointed that the same behaviour had been repeated at various grounds. "Andrew is hurt at the crowd behaviour but we've been told action has been taken," he said. "But some of the stuff that happens is totally unacceptable and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. I'm sure there are a lot of people in India that would be embarrassed by the incident. "It is done now, hopefully in the Twenty20 match on Saturday it does not happen there."
Oct 17 – Daily Telegraph
"It would be disappointing if someone is accusing him of lying as we all know that is not the case," Ponting said. "It wouldn't be written up in a match report if it wasn't true.
Oct 23 – Cricinfo
The Daily Telegraph reported that during Saturday's Twenty20 match at Mumbai's Brabourne Stadium calls of "go home Symonds" and "Symonds sucks" were heard from the crowd.
"I am not sure why every time Symmo's name is mentioned or he comes on the screen that they boo him," Ponting said in the paper.
Oct 22 – Daily Telegraph
The Aussie skipper also revealed that the Indian players made no attempt to apologise to him for their fans' racist behaviour.
"They should be (embarrassed) because I would've been (if it happened) in Australia," Ponting said.
"It affected him (Symonds) but he didn't want it to become such a huge issue. He wanted to be able to have it dealt with by the appropriate people and be able to distance himself from it."
"I'd like to see the Australian fans and public treat the Indians as they would any other team," Ponting said.
"We've got a lot of cricket against them over the next couple of months and it will be interesting to see how long a lot of that aggression lasts."
Oct 20 – Daily Telegraph
"Over the past couple of weeks I felt I have been put in a situation not of my making," said Symonds, who is of West Indian lineage… "Anyone who knows me will understand that being a focus of this particular story is something I am not comfortable with."…. "I have never made a complaint at any venue but I did answer media questions asking whether I'd heard the chanting aimed at me at Vadodara," Symonds said. "I said at the time that I wasn't particularly bothered by it and tried to diffuse the original situation by interacting with the crowd.
(Ponting:) It was very disappointing to see all that stuff happen the other night and a few arrests were made as a result. You would think that people seeing that would wise up a little bit," he said.
Ponting said Symonds was putting on a brave face despite his "unflappable" exterior.
"There is no doubt it has had some effect. It has been going for a week and half which is no fault of his," Ponting said.
Oct 19 – Daily Telegraph
Speaking after the two-wicket loss, Ponting said the taunts were "totally unnecessary".
"Andrew is hurt at the crowd behaviour but we've been told action has been taken," he said.
"I just hope that does not happen again in another cricket venue that I play in because it leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth."
Oct 17 – Daily Telegraph
"I know the match referee (Chris Broad) knows about it. If the ICC gets it in the report they have to do something," Ponting said. "Racism is unacceptable anywhere in the world. You don't expect it to happen when you step out on the field.
"We did not expect it and we do not expect it to happen again."
"I am a pretty liberal sort of bloke but racism is a big issue in world sport, not just cricket," Symonds wrote.
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-10-31 15:02:22
Mahesh, you've proved again that you just don't get it.
These examples you have provided are nothing more than Ponting requesting that the ICC's anti-racism policies be upheld in other countries in addition to Australia. The amount of crap that he copped from the media when an ex-pat Afrikaaner insulted Ntini and Kallis, you'd think he'd earnt the right to ask the rules be universal.
Your Symonds examples show his frustration at being called a liar and not much else. There certainly isn't evidence of this being whining, let alone incessant whining.
Regardless, it was news two weeks ago.. can't believe you're still going on about it now. I'm over it now so wont be commenting any further on the matter.
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-31 16:12:43
These examples you have provided are nothing more than Ponting requesting that the ICC's anti-racism policies be upheld in other countries in addition to Australia. The amount of crap that he copped from the media when an ex-pat Afrikaaner insulted Ntini and Kallis, you'd think he'd earnt the right to ask the rules be universal.
Your Symonds examples show his frustration at being called a liar and not much else. There certainly isn't evidence of this being whining, let alone incessant whining.
Regardless, it was news two weeks ago.. can't believe you're still going on about it now. I'm over it now so wont be commenting any further on the matter.
Posted by Moses on 2007-10-31 16:12:43
Great research! Now lets try and find the "crying" and "whining":
Oct 17- Cricinfo:
OK, lets see. The Aussie captain is disappointed in racial abuse of his players. Says he hopes it doesn't happen again. Fair enough, he's responding to the media with a diplomatic and factual account of the situation.
Oct 17 – Daily Telegraph:
Captain (who witnessed the abuse first hand) hopes that the (token) BCCI anti-racism officer isn't accusing one of his players of being a liar. Damn right, who wouldn't??
Oct 23 – Cricinfo:
Captain isn't sure why Symonds keeps getting booed and racially taunted. No-one is!
Again, factual.
Oct 22 – Daily Telegraph:
Aussie captain disappointed that the Indians didn't offer any kind of condolence or explanation for crowd behaviour. Factual. Symonds is hurt but DOESNT WANT TO MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF IT. (your quote!!!)
Ponting hopes that the Aussie crowd don't behave as despicably. Good on him.
Oct 20 – Daily Telegraph:
Symonds feels like he is in an impossible situation between the crowd and the media (which is was). Ponting can't understand that the abuse has been going on for a week and a half. Again, factual.
Also you failed to include this quote by Ponting:
"He (Symonds) has been trying to get it out of the papers as quickly as he can but we are still here talking about it and things are happening day after day with it. I am sure he will be very happy and glad when it is all over and done with."
So Symonds is trying to get it out of the papers but the Indian media won't drop it, and the crowd won't stop racially abusing the guy! It's not his fault.
Oct 19 – Daily Telegraph:
Pointing has been told that action has been taken. Hopes thats the end of it (as do we all). Factual and correct.
Oct 17 – Daily Telegraph:
Captain expresses that racism is unacceptable anywhere in the world. Is that whinging? I reckon that's just a great attitude! Symonds acknowledges racism is an issue in sport. Again, factual, not crying or whinging as far as I can see.
Jeez Mahesh, I think your quotes were uttely brilliant. You've proved my point much better than I could!
CHEERS!
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-31 16:25:20
Oct 17- Cricinfo:
OK, lets see. The Aussie captain is disappointed in racial abuse of his players. Says he hopes it doesn't happen again. Fair enough, he's responding to the media with a diplomatic and factual account of the situation.
Oct 17 – Daily Telegraph:
Captain (who witnessed the abuse first hand) hopes that the (token) BCCI anti-racism officer isn't accusing one of his players of being a liar. Damn right, who wouldn't??
Oct 23 – Cricinfo:
Captain isn't sure why Symonds keeps getting booed and racially taunted. No-one is!
Again, factual.
Oct 22 – Daily Telegraph:
Aussie captain disappointed that the Indians didn't offer any kind of condolence or explanation for crowd behaviour. Factual. Symonds is hurt but DOESNT WANT TO MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF IT. (your quote!!!)
Ponting hopes that the Aussie crowd don't behave as despicably. Good on him.
Oct 20 – Daily Telegraph:
Symonds feels like he is in an impossible situation between the crowd and the media (which is was). Ponting can't understand that the abuse has been going on for a week and a half. Again, factual.
Also you failed to include this quote by Ponting:
"He (Symonds) has been trying to get it out of the papers as quickly as he can but we are still here talking about it and things are happening day after day with it. I am sure he will be very happy and glad when it is all over and done with."
So Symonds is trying to get it out of the papers but the Indian media won't drop it, and the crowd won't stop racially abusing the guy! It's not his fault.
Oct 19 – Daily Telegraph:
Pointing has been told that action has been taken. Hopes thats the end of it (as do we all). Factual and correct.
Oct 17 – Daily Telegraph:
Captain expresses that racism is unacceptable anywhere in the world. Is that whinging? I reckon that's just a great attitude! Symonds acknowledges racism is an issue in sport. Again, factual, not crying or whinging as far as I can see.
Jeez Mahesh, I think your quotes were uttely brilliant. You've proved my point much better than I could!
CHEERS!
Posted by Timbo on 2007-10-31 16:25:20
Andrew - If I am going on about it after 2 weeks, it is only because Timbo asked me yesterday for the links. I resisted for a long time, as it involved some effort.
Timbo - Agreed that Ponting's and Symonds' views as quoted were understandably expected of any victim of racial abuse. Anybody is justified to talk about his disappointment over unfair treatment.
But, check the dates... from Oct 17th until about 23rd (when I last checked).... almost every day, Ponting has gone to the press with a new statement on the incident. Why?
Why is he talking so much about it if he was not hurt by it?
Did he say anything new a week after that he didnt say a week before? No. So much is his hurt that he appears to be one who was looking for the nearest press to talk about the incident.
I would say that no captain has spoken so much about an incident, however ugly it was.
A Steve Waugh or an Allan Border would have only spoken about it on the day of occurence, and later concentrated on the game on hand. But to speak about it on 17th, 19th, 20th, 22nd... and again on landing in Australia..... Hmmmm... judge for yourself...
All I am saying is the repeated statements to the press everyday, however justified is just not Aussie, to the rest of the world. It is a definite departure from how normally Oz cricketers react. Am I not supposed to voice this?
Cheers
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-11-01 03:13:39
Timbo - Agreed that Ponting's and Symonds' views as quoted were understandably expected of any victim of racial abuse. Anybody is justified to talk about his disappointment over unfair treatment.
But, check the dates... from Oct 17th until about 23rd (when I last checked).... almost every day, Ponting has gone to the press with a new statement on the incident. Why?
Why is he talking so much about it if he was not hurt by it?
Did he say anything new a week after that he didnt say a week before? No. So much is his hurt that he appears to be one who was looking for the nearest press to talk about the incident.
I would say that no captain has spoken so much about an incident, however ugly it was.
A Steve Waugh or an Allan Border would have only spoken about it on the day of occurence, and later concentrated on the game on hand. But to speak about it on 17th, 19th, 20th, 22nd... and again on landing in Australia..... Hmmmm... judge for yourself...
All I am saying is the repeated statements to the press everyday, however justified is just not Aussie, to the rest of the world. It is a definite departure from how normally Oz cricketers react. Am I not supposed to voice this?
Cheers
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-11-01 03:13:39
Timbo - You quoted me on Ponting's statement "Symonds is hurt but DOESNT WANT TO MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF IT."
What do you call talking to the press for 7 or 8 days in succession about the same incident, if not ISSUE???? Ponting was making an issue of it.
Rather, Ponting implied that since Symo doesnt want to make an issue out of it, he was doing it on his behalf!!! (as a responsible captain!!!)
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-11-01 03:17:09
What do you call talking to the press for 7 or 8 days in succession about the same incident, if not ISSUE???? Ponting was making an issue of it.
Rather, Ponting implied that since Symo doesnt want to make an issue out of it, he was doing it on his behalf!!! (as a responsible captain!!!)
Cheers
Mahesh
Posted by Mahesh on 2007-11-01 03:17:09
Mahesh, Ricky Ponting is the Australian Team Captain. He gets interviewed by the media (of some kind or another) EVERY SINGLE DAY.
If he is touring in another country and there is a racism scandal, especially in a cricket-mad country like India, the reporters/media are going to ask him questions about it NON-STOP. EVERY DAY.
He HAS to respond to their questions. So what if he says the same thing, it just means his story isn't changing. He can't ignore the media, he's expected (as the captain) to respond to interviews.
HE'S NOT BLOGGING ON MYSPACE.
Posted by Timbo on 2007-11-01 10:26:07
If he is touring in another country and there is a racism scandal, especially in a cricket-mad country like India, the reporters/media are going to ask him questions about it NON-STOP. EVERY DAY.
He HAS to respond to their questions. So what if he says the same thing, it just means his story isn't changing. He can't ignore the media, he's expected (as the captain) to respond to interviews.
HE'S NOT BLOGGING ON MYSPACE.
Posted by Timbo on 2007-11-01 10:26:07
Bottom Line..
No matter what the Indians have done on and off the field will only HURT Pointing and a few of his breed.
The image Aussies have established all over the world is - 'You guys play well, but are the most racist breed to play cricket'.. I am happy to provide all the required references.. It would take a lot of my time to collate it though
The current effort (Pointing et all) to put a spin on that image by blaming someone else will never work and nobody except the Australian's are convinced by it. Thats the fact, and will always remain. The problem is that the Aussies will show their true colours this summer anyway, thus contradicting themselves.
Honestly, I don't give a damn about Indian's, Indian players and Indian crowds being termed racist by Australians, we can't keep dogs from barking.. Its a joke you guys have played on yourselves in front of the world.. Poor Symo, would have to cop it all over the world now..
Hanuman et all, you can go on and on criticizing India. Indians, Indian Players BCCI, .... you are only convincing yourselves thats all..
Posted by Kurt on 2007-11-06 12:24:41
No matter what the Indians have done on and off the field will only HURT Pointing and a few of his breed.
The image Aussies have established all over the world is - 'You guys play well, but are the most racist breed to play cricket'.. I am happy to provide all the required references.. It would take a lot of my time to collate it though
The current effort (Pointing et all) to put a spin on that image by blaming someone else will never work and nobody except the Australian's are convinced by it. Thats the fact, and will always remain. The problem is that the Aussies will show their true colours this summer anyway, thus contradicting themselves.
Honestly, I don't give a damn about Indian's, Indian players and Indian crowds being termed racist by Australians, we can't keep dogs from barking.. Its a joke you guys have played on yourselves in front of the world.. Poor Symo, would have to cop it all over the world now..
Hanuman et all, you can go on and on criticizing India. Indians, Indian Players BCCI, .... you are only convincing yourselves thats all..
Posted by Kurt on 2007-11-06 12:24:41
I still think you (and the rest of the Indian media) seem to find it much more convenient to blame the abusEE instead of the abusER.
Posted by james rojario on 2008-03-11 21:14:48
Posted by james rojario on 2008-03-11 21:14:48
The current effort (Pointing et all) to put a spin on that image by blaming someone else will never work and nobody except the Australian's are convinced by it. Thats the fact, and will always remain. The problem is that the Aussies will show their true colours this summer anyway, thus contradicting themselves.
http://www.buytolethomesuk.com
Posted by james rojario on 2008-03-11 21:15:51
http://www.buytolethomesuk.com
Posted by james rojario on 2008-03-11 21:15:51
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