Mental Disintegration
When elite sportsmen compete at the highest level there is often little separating them when it comes to skill. This is true in team sports and mental domination or superiority can determine success or victory on the playing field.
Aussie cricketers talk of mental disintegration of an opposition.
In this series against India we have witnessed something different and unusual. The visitors, with the worst disciplinary record in world cricket, have cried foul. After the Sydney Test, a comment by Kumble to the effect that only one side had been playing in the true spirit of the game, was seized on by the media.
Kumble succeeded in muddying the waters. It was no longer just poor umpiring. Somehow the poor behaviour of our cricketers contributed to the result. This was brilliantly conceived and executed.
The Australian side was now out of its comfort zone, wanting not only to succeed but also to demonstrate open camaraderie and sportsmanship. Previous successes had not been built around any overt goodwill toward opposition sides.
Masters of team sports like Rob de Castella and ageing embarrassments like Neil Harvey created further division.
Many Australians underestimate Indian people, seeing them as modest, humble, self-effacing types who are often mistreated and misunderstood. Underneath that exterior you will find many with devious cunning, ruthlessness, astute brains and acumen. Just ask Pacific islanders of countries with a large Indian population base.
So the Australian players are in a conundrum. I'm glad the series is only one of four Tests, because I fully expect the series to be tied at 2-2. For the Aussies to rebound and win in Adelaide, it will take one hell of a turnaround in mental attitude.
India has reclaimed the moral high ground.
As for the Aussie team selection:
Tait must never again play for his country unless it can be guaranteed that he bowls at his fastest. That is all he is good for.
Phil Jaques must average over 60 with the bat. To compensate for his shortcomings in the field. Australia has prided itself on athleticism and Jaques is a poor example.
Hayden must play. His strength of character will be sorely missed when he retires. It is a strength off which others feed.
Aussie cricketers talk of mental disintegration of an opposition.
In this series against India we have witnessed something different and unusual. The visitors, with the worst disciplinary record in world cricket, have cried foul. After the Sydney Test, a comment by Kumble to the effect that only one side had been playing in the true spirit of the game, was seized on by the media.
Kumble succeeded in muddying the waters. It was no longer just poor umpiring. Somehow the poor behaviour of our cricketers contributed to the result. This was brilliantly conceived and executed.
The Australian side was now out of its comfort zone, wanting not only to succeed but also to demonstrate open camaraderie and sportsmanship. Previous successes had not been built around any overt goodwill toward opposition sides.
Masters of team sports like Rob de Castella and ageing embarrassments like Neil Harvey created further division.
Many Australians underestimate Indian people, seeing them as modest, humble, self-effacing types who are often mistreated and misunderstood. Underneath that exterior you will find many with devious cunning, ruthlessness, astute brains and acumen. Just ask Pacific islanders of countries with a large Indian population base.
So the Australian players are in a conundrum. I'm glad the series is only one of four Tests, because I fully expect the series to be tied at 2-2. For the Aussies to rebound and win in Adelaide, it will take one hell of a turnaround in mental attitude.
India has reclaimed the moral high ground.
As for the Aussie team selection:
Tait must never again play for his country unless it can be guaranteed that he bowls at his fastest. That is all he is good for.
Phil Jaques must average over 60 with the bat. To compensate for his shortcomings in the field. Australia has prided itself on athleticism and Jaques is a poor example.
Hayden must play. His strength of character will be sorely missed when he retires. It is a strength off which others feed.
| Posted by Dan Tas on Tue 22 Jan |  60 comments |
Yes Dan Tas, you are spot on when you say that the Austalians underestimate the Indian people. Not because they are especially cunning or ruthless but because they are prone to bouts of inferiority complexes. Many people think of Indians from extreme perspectives ranging from extremely shy or modest to scheming and manipulative.
There was a time when the Indian took his pre-destined inferiority in society with a grain of salt in the best interest of his or her children. After all, jobs needed to be secured, money to be made and food needed to be put on the table. Survival was a priority and so if it came at the price of feeling inferior or short-changed, that was fine.
Well, the children have grown up. And subsequent to a rapidly prospering and expanding Indian community all over the world comes a deep desire to shake off the inferiority complex, at any cost. There is a desire to beat them who claim to not be beatable and to do it with superiority. There is even a bit of desire to play the “bad boy” at that.
Kumble’s remark on the Aussie spirit in Sydney was unfair and inexplicable. After all, it was three of his batsmen that failed to last the final 10 minutes of the test. Why should the Aussies be blamed for winning when it was his team that snatched defeat from out of nowhere? Why was more outrage reserved for the winning team and the poor umpiring rather than the losing one? What explains the post-match discussion becoming so lopsided?
The answer is simple. The Indians were hurt. Failure has become more painful for the Indian than at any time in the history of the people because they believe they are superior. They believe that they’ve had enough of losing and will not tolerate anymore of it. And their reaction to a terrible loss was to behave like sore losers and lay the blame to the victors rather than on themselves. This is despicable.
It’s no secret that the Indians came here to win the series. Their surprise at not being able to do that is telling of their mindset.
In all fairness, their Perth victory has shown that their desire to win is not hollow. Their self-belief is now justified to me and I have begun to think that perhaps the Indian isn’t really hallucinating all that much. Their win in Perth has also made it easier to explain their behavior after Sydney.
Yes, Australia underestimated the Indians. They did not see a team hungrier for victory than themselves. That is perhaps the biggest difference between 16 wins on the trot and 2 losses in a row – the hunger to win the next one.
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-23 02:08:32
There was a time when the Indian took his pre-destined inferiority in society with a grain of salt in the best interest of his or her children. After all, jobs needed to be secured, money to be made and food needed to be put on the table. Survival was a priority and so if it came at the price of feeling inferior or short-changed, that was fine.
Well, the children have grown up. And subsequent to a rapidly prospering and expanding Indian community all over the world comes a deep desire to shake off the inferiority complex, at any cost. There is a desire to beat them who claim to not be beatable and to do it with superiority. There is even a bit of desire to play the “bad boy” at that.
Kumble’s remark on the Aussie spirit in Sydney was unfair and inexplicable. After all, it was three of his batsmen that failed to last the final 10 minutes of the test. Why should the Aussies be blamed for winning when it was his team that snatched defeat from out of nowhere? Why was more outrage reserved for the winning team and the poor umpiring rather than the losing one? What explains the post-match discussion becoming so lopsided?
The answer is simple. The Indians were hurt. Failure has become more painful for the Indian than at any time in the history of the people because they believe they are superior. They believe that they’ve had enough of losing and will not tolerate anymore of it. And their reaction to a terrible loss was to behave like sore losers and lay the blame to the victors rather than on themselves. This is despicable.
It’s no secret that the Indians came here to win the series. Their surprise at not being able to do that is telling of their mindset.
In all fairness, their Perth victory has shown that their desire to win is not hollow. Their self-belief is now justified to me and I have begun to think that perhaps the Indian isn’t really hallucinating all that much. Their win in Perth has also made it easier to explain their behavior after Sydney.
Yes, Australia underestimated the Indians. They did not see a team hungrier for victory than themselves. That is perhaps the biggest difference between 16 wins on the trot and 2 losses in a row – the hunger to win the next one.
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-23 02:08:32
Alter Ego
Interesting viewpoint indeed.
I am nearly embarrassed to bring it up again but do you think the Indian team and the skipper would have responded the way they did if the umpiring had been poor but not abyssimal ?
After-all despite a sound drubbing in the first test there was complete silence from this "success hungry" unit. They knew they were fairly beaten by a better team on the day. It was their fault.
All the angst we witnessed after Sydney was unique. Some have unfairly described it as the typical reaction from the team and its supporters.
Your insight into the current Indian mindset is pretty accurate and well articulated.
Cheers
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-23 04:18:21
Interesting viewpoint indeed.
I am nearly embarrassed to bring it up again but do you think the Indian team and the skipper would have responded the way they did if the umpiring had been poor but not abyssimal ?
After-all despite a sound drubbing in the first test there was complete silence from this "success hungry" unit. They knew they were fairly beaten by a better team on the day. It was their fault.
All the angst we witnessed after Sydney was unique. Some have unfairly described it as the typical reaction from the team and its supporters.
Your insight into the current Indian mindset is pretty accurate and well articulated.
Cheers
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-23 04:18:21
Tail Spin,
The reaction of the Indian team after Sydney was atypical. I've been watching them all my life and have never seen so much emotion.
You juxtapose this with the silence after melbourne and attribute the difference to abyssimal umpiring and feel it was justified.
I believe that after Melbourne the Indians analysed their mistakes and fully backed themselves to win the next three on the trot. No one can deny that they played their heart out at Sydney and to still come up on the losing side was unbearable. A scapegoat had to be found to ease the pain.
Enough said...
Kudos to you too. Keep it coming.
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-23 04:52:53
The reaction of the Indian team after Sydney was atypical. I've been watching them all my life and have never seen so much emotion.
You juxtapose this with the silence after melbourne and attribute the difference to abyssimal umpiring and feel it was justified.
I believe that after Melbourne the Indians analysed their mistakes and fully backed themselves to win the next three on the trot. No one can deny that they played their heart out at Sydney and to still come up on the losing side was unbearable. A scapegoat had to be found to ease the pain.
Enough said...
Kudos to you too. Keep it coming.
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-23 04:52:53
u aussie guyz just whine...and keep complaining..even after the unfair incidents in sydney u still say the indians were trying to make a scapegoat to ease the pain...just try to think what the aussies wud have done had they been in similar spot!
Posted by rk9 on 2008-01-23 07:39:42
Posted by rk9 on 2008-01-23 07:39:42
rk9
I am Indian. And my brain is detached from my proud Indian heart.
Unlike yours.
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-23 07:46:06
I am Indian. And my brain is detached from my proud Indian heart.
Unlike yours.
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-23 07:46:06
Oh, and the "aussie guyz" would have held their last 3 to force a draw in Sydney if they were in a similar spot.
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-23 07:50:43
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-23 07:50:43
Great insight guys, really interesting...
My girlfriend is half Indian, and I also have a lot of Indian friends, and the outpouring of emotion after the game was amazing and unprecedented...
Generally after we beat them there is a begrudging acceptance of who played the better cricket or a rueful shake of the head of their own teams failings.
After Sydney, all hell broke loose I was flooded with text messages from Indian mates and my girlfriends Dad just kept going on about "It not being cricket"...
There is also a lot of talk these days about the "New India" and how people have no fear - this is apparently the generation of T20 guys -Yuvraj, Dhoni, Sreesanth....
I guess, India is finally realising how powerful it is, with a burgeoning middle-class, our outdated stereotypes of them are being changed as we speak.
I mean all we still see on SBS about India is the 30% of the population are below the poverty line. I have visited Bangalore for business on many occassions and traveled around parts of India, and the place is really booming, and there is a massive middle class who own a unit and a scooter or small car...
All this is being reflected on the cricket field - I think Dhoni's captaincy will change things even more for India
We could see a new aggressive team - to fight fire with fire
Posted by Ace on 2008-01-23 10:09:02
My girlfriend is half Indian, and I also have a lot of Indian friends, and the outpouring of emotion after the game was amazing and unprecedented...
Generally after we beat them there is a begrudging acceptance of who played the better cricket or a rueful shake of the head of their own teams failings.
After Sydney, all hell broke loose I was flooded with text messages from Indian mates and my girlfriends Dad just kept going on about "It not being cricket"...
There is also a lot of talk these days about the "New India" and how people have no fear - this is apparently the generation of T20 guys -Yuvraj, Dhoni, Sreesanth....
I guess, India is finally realising how powerful it is, with a burgeoning middle-class, our outdated stereotypes of them are being changed as we speak.
I mean all we still see on SBS about India is the 30% of the population are below the poverty line. I have visited Bangalore for business on many occassions and traveled around parts of India, and the place is really booming, and there is a massive middle class who own a unit and a scooter or small car...
All this is being reflected on the cricket field - I think Dhoni's captaincy will change things even more for India
We could see a new aggressive team - to fight fire with fire
Posted by Ace on 2008-01-23 10:09:02
Great insights Alter Ego. I hope you will give us more of your insights throughout the remainder of the series.
Posted by TA on 2008-01-23 10:56:36
Posted by TA on 2008-01-23 10:56:36
Something u guys might be interested in after all the debate done on this site about the whole 'racism' affair
:here is the link to the full subtext of Mike Proctor's judgement
http://docs.google.com/View?docID=dct39c8s_80hpbr8gd9&revision=_latest
My take on it is that Proctor went with his instinct rather than facts. He appears to believe that Aussies had no motives or malice so falsely implicate Harbhajan and hence he is guilty. While this may be very well true but it does not stand up in court of law. Also Proctor has not explained the reasons , only that he believed one party's word over the other , which should not be sufficient from the legal point of view. Before anybody jumps on me,I am not taking sides just stating how the facts look. It should make for an interesting hearing once the tests are over.
P.S: this link came from a Supreme court judge who went over the judgement and gave his opinion. So I think this document can be assumed to be correct.
Posted by abhi on 2008-01-23 11:10:48
:here is the link to the full subtext of Mike Proctor's judgement
http://docs.google.com/View?docID=dct39c8s_80hpbr8gd9&revision=_latest
My take on it is that Proctor went with his instinct rather than facts. He appears to believe that Aussies had no motives or malice so falsely implicate Harbhajan and hence he is guilty. While this may be very well true but it does not stand up in court of law. Also Proctor has not explained the reasons , only that he believed one party's word over the other , which should not be sufficient from the legal point of view. Before anybody jumps on me,I am not taking sides just stating how the facts look. It should make for an interesting hearing once the tests are over.
P.S: this link came from a Supreme court judge who went over the judgement and gave his opinion. So I think this document can be assumed to be correct.
Posted by abhi on 2008-01-23 11:10:48
sorry for the typo.
Its : ... had no motives or malice 'to' falsely implicate Harbhajan.....
Posted by abhi on 2008-01-23 11:15:04
Its : ... had no motives or malice 'to' falsely implicate Harbhajan.....
Posted by abhi on 2008-01-23 11:15:04
I dont at all agree with you Alter Ego ( "There is even a bit of desire to play the “bad boy” at that. "}. Please clarify who played "bady boy" in sydney test. Claiming some grassed catches is innocent? or standing there knowing that ball has nicked the bat? is that innocent? Nothing was in the spirit of game by aussies there. They wanted to win at any cost. There are ethics/morals in any game.
Alter Ego, you are saying Indians have this inferiority complex. or is it you who is suffering with this?? India has glorious history, now it is progressing in all fronts. The civilization started thousand years earlier . Better you know australian history and decide yourself who is suffering from complex complexes.
Posted by Reply on 2008-01-23 12:26:47
Alter Ego, you are saying Indians have this inferiority complex. or is it you who is suffering with this?? India has glorious history, now it is progressing in all fronts. The civilization started thousand years earlier . Better you know australian history and decide yourself who is suffering from complex complexes.
Posted by Reply on 2008-01-23 12:26:47
"Tait must never again play for his country unless it can be guaranteed that he bowls at his fastest. That is all he is good for."
And, um, downwind. Wtf was up with bowling him into it? And you don't play four quickies to only give the fastest of them one over before lunch. And Johnson had a worse economy rate than Tait at one point in the second innings, yet Ponting kept bowling him even though he's been decidedly uninspiring.
There's no doubt that Tait looked underdone, but the way Ponting managed him, it was like he didn't want him in the side at all.
Posted by tomd on 2008-01-23 12:44:45
And, um, downwind. Wtf was up with bowling him into it? And you don't play four quickies to only give the fastest of them one over before lunch. And Johnson had a worse economy rate than Tait at one point in the second innings, yet Ponting kept bowling him even though he's been decidedly uninspiring.
There's no doubt that Tait looked underdone, but the way Ponting managed him, it was like he didn't want him in the side at all.
Posted by tomd on 2008-01-23 12:44:45
I'm not sure if the plans of claiming high moral ground were conceived and executed by Kumble... Nobody comes with such a script within half an hour of the test ending. It's you convicts who come up with such trash to justify whatever you have been doing over the last 2 decades
Posted by anon on 2008-01-23 14:12:57
Posted by anon on 2008-01-23 14:12:57
Well there is a review on the fourth day of perth test. Enjoy:
http://www.cricketviewer.com/ishant-savours-spell-to-ponting.html
Posted by Naina on 2008-01-23 14:16:11
http://www.cricketviewer.com/ishant-savours-spell-to-ponting.html
Posted by Naina on 2008-01-23 14:16:11
The writers of this blog (and some others) have totally different perspective of what is happening in this series. First match is seen as total India failure (and hence very comforting for all of them). Understandably Indians played poor cricket so kept quite.
The second match is considered as "Indians crying foul" and "an attempt to tarnish the glory of a dramatic test victory". Rest of the world questions about the spirit that Aussies have shown. So very very discomforting to all. Everybody knows that India played some good cricket and showed signs of recovery but...well we all know what happened. (Specially Ponting giving Ganguly out..haha)
The third test is like a bitter guard in their mouth. Trying to find out reasons of defeat, other than Australian failure in batting and bowling. That is why psyche of Indians (1 billion people) is being analyzed. WTF!!!
Posted by techmine on 2008-01-23 14:21:34
The second match is considered as "Indians crying foul" and "an attempt to tarnish the glory of a dramatic test victory". Rest of the world questions about the spirit that Aussies have shown. So very very discomforting to all. Everybody knows that India played some good cricket and showed signs of recovery but...well we all know what happened. (Specially Ponting giving Ganguly out..haha)
The third test is like a bitter guard in their mouth. Trying to find out reasons of defeat, other than Australian failure in batting and bowling. That is why psyche of Indians (1 billion people) is being analyzed. WTF!!!
Posted by techmine on 2008-01-23 14:21:34
tomd, I noticed the same attitude from Ponting towards Tait in the 2005 Ashes where he only bowled 3 overs at The Oval. Weird, doesn't seem to have any faith in him.
Although the way he bowled in Perth, hard to blame him...
Posted by JC on 2008-01-23 14:34:21
Although the way he bowled in Perth, hard to blame him...
Posted by JC on 2008-01-23 14:34:21
JC : The rules that came up recently for this blog prohibited racism, which is good, assume you moderate comments also based on that. However, this last post from dan tas is agaist those basics and spirits. If the site wants non-aussies to be not racist, the same rules should apply to aussies as well. You need to make sure spirit maintained by everyone, for both posts and commnets.
Posted by AB on 2008-01-23 15:49:54
Posted by AB on 2008-01-23 15:49:54
"Underneath that exterior you will find many with devious cunning, ruthlessness, astute brains and acumen. Just ask Pacific islanders of countries with a large Indian population base."
This is just a plain racist diatribe. And just a few days back we were made to believe that racist comments will not be tolerated on this blog.
Absolutely shocking hypocrisy!!! So much for concern about racism been directed against Symmo. Shame on you guys.
Posted by BS on 2008-01-23 16:47:51
This is just a plain racist diatribe. And just a few days back we were made to believe that racist comments will not be tolerated on this blog.
Absolutely shocking hypocrisy!!! So much for concern about racism been directed against Symmo. Shame on you guys.
Posted by BS on 2008-01-23 16:47:51
Sorry Dan Tas. I'm afraid I have to agree with BS here.
Posted by TA on 2008-01-23 17:06:14
Posted by TA on 2008-01-23 17:06:14
Dan, while not as blatant as calling someone a monkey it definitely has a smelly tone.
I believe you may have met individuals as you described but the insinuation that these characteristics are typical even of "many" Indians is off colour.
I suggest a written apology and a three test ban on posting articles.
Just my two cents.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-23 17:46:05
I believe you may have met individuals as you described but the insinuation that these characteristics are typical even of "many" Indians is off colour.
I suggest a written apology and a three test ban on posting articles.
Just my two cents.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-23 17:46:05
JC: Yes, I remember. It's doubly weird because Ponting manages him pretty well in the one dayers, but I suppose tests are rather less formulaic.
I really don't understand the obsession with Johnson, though. New ball bowlers shouldn't be bowling two feet outside off stump, and Clark is currently a cut above, yet gets underbowled. Weird.
Posted by tomd on 2008-01-23 17:49:50
I really don't understand the obsession with Johnson, though. New ball bowlers shouldn't be bowling two feet outside off stump, and Clark is currently a cut above, yet gets underbowled. Weird.
Posted by tomd on 2008-01-23 17:49:50
I'd rather say delete this post and the author be banned from posting(he can air his views in the comments section though - freedom of expression).
Another thing I hate to tell, but global reality is that it is market economics and Darwin's law of survival.. only the best/adaptable people survive in this cut throat world. Europeans colonized America,Australia in the 16-17th century. Now it's the turn of asians.
Posted by anon on 2008-01-23 17:53:23
Another thing I hate to tell, but global reality is that it is market economics and Darwin's law of survival.. only the best/adaptable people survive in this cut throat world. Europeans colonized America,Australia in the 16-17th century. Now it's the turn of asians.
Posted by anon on 2008-01-23 17:53:23
It's a blatant racial abuse on DanTas part. Like him to apologise for that atleast. Otherwise rename your blog as Aussie perspective (perspective is unbiased opinion unlike this post) blog
Posted by mq on 2008-01-23 19:18:24
Posted by mq on 2008-01-23 19:18:24
"Underneath that exterior you will find many with devious cunning, ruthlessness, astute brains and acumen. Just ask Pacific islanders of countries with a large Indian population base. "
LOL. Please ask the original inhabitants of what is now called australia how they feel about the invaders!. most young aussies dont even know that their nation classified the originals along with flora and fauna till 1971.
(not even human beings).
so much for psychobabble
also, another point: the "indians" living in the pacific islanders are no longer "indians" as much as the whites living in australia are no longer "europeans". so stop with the racial profiling.
Posted by dsylexic on 2008-01-23 19:37:09
LOL. Please ask the original inhabitants of what is now called australia how they feel about the invaders!. most young aussies dont even know that their nation classified the originals along with flora and fauna till 1971.
(not even human beings).
so much for psychobabble
also, another point: the "indians" living in the pacific islanders are no longer "indians" as much as the whites living in australia are no longer "europeans". so stop with the racial profiling.
Posted by dsylexic on 2008-01-23 19:37:09
JC: U R responsible to remove this post if the author does not appologise.
Posted by hello on 2008-01-23 20:32:49
Posted by hello on 2008-01-23 20:32:49
"Underneath that exterior you will find many with devious cunning, ruthlessness, astute brains and acumen."
To be fair to Dan Tas the only word I object to is "devious". I am quite happy being called others.
"I won't call you a Monkey but you may call me a Fox"
Ruthless Indian is a bit of an Oxymoron. I wish we were ...
Astute Brains and Acumen is fine...thankyou!
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-23 20:51:49
To be fair to Dan Tas the only word I object to is "devious". I am quite happy being called others.
"I won't call you a Monkey but you may call me a Fox"
Ruthless Indian is a bit of an Oxymoron. I wish we were ...
Astute Brains and Acumen is fine...thankyou!
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-23 20:51:49
Very good observations DT, love your work.
Don't think we have enough intimidatory players at the moment. Without Hayden and Gilly blasting from the word go, we're kinda lacking in the old skool Lillee's, Thommo's, Warnie's and Merv's who put the willies up the opposition.
While players such as McGrath and Lee will always pick up wickets on skill and the likes of Ponting and Hussey will accumulate runs and continually dish out hurtful innings, the true fear factor may be missing now and could put us on an even keel with teams such as India...?
And it's not just a vacant Aussie monopoly - Botham, Hadlee, Waqar, Lara, V. Richards, Ambrose, Gavaskar and Muralitharithalidaran have all won tests using their fear-factor...
Posted by virtualgaz on 2008-01-23 20:53:37
Don't think we have enough intimidatory players at the moment. Without Hayden and Gilly blasting from the word go, we're kinda lacking in the old skool Lillee's, Thommo's, Warnie's and Merv's who put the willies up the opposition.
While players such as McGrath and Lee will always pick up wickets on skill and the likes of Ponting and Hussey will accumulate runs and continually dish out hurtful innings, the true fear factor may be missing now and could put us on an even keel with teams such as India...?
And it's not just a vacant Aussie monopoly - Botham, Hadlee, Waqar, Lara, V. Richards, Ambrose, Gavaskar and Muralitharithalidaran have all won tests using their fear-factor...
Posted by virtualgaz on 2008-01-23 20:53:37
I apologise for using the word devious. As you say, Tail spin, all other words could be interpreted as complimentary.
Posted by Dan Tas on 2008-01-23 21:00:04
Posted by Dan Tas on 2008-01-23 21:00:04
Good man Dan !
It has been a spice inducing post and was badly needed.
The wait is killing us all ...
Hope the rain stays away !
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-23 21:12:40
It has been a spice inducing post and was badly needed.
The wait is killing us all ...
Hope the rain stays away !
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-23 21:12:40
"also, another point: the "indians" living in the pacific islanders are no longer "indians" as much as the whites living in australia are no longer "europeans". so stop with the racial profiling." - dyspeptic
Yeah unless of course they live in South Africa. I saw plenty of "Saffa's" dressed in blue and waving Indian flags at the twenty/20 matches.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-23 23:16:15
Yeah unless of course they live in South Africa. I saw plenty of "Saffa's" dressed in blue and waving Indian flags at the twenty/20 matches.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-23 23:16:15
Thanks TS
Let me tell you something. I come from European stock. My ancestors sought to conquer the world through brutal savagery and total disregard for humanity.
When I meet my modern-day kinfolk I find many to be cold, arrogant and "superior".
So you see, I'm not racist. I just hate everybody!!!
Posted by Dan Tas on 2008-01-23 23:16:17
Let me tell you something. I come from European stock. My ancestors sought to conquer the world through brutal savagery and total disregard for humanity.
When I meet my modern-day kinfolk I find many to be cold, arrogant and "superior".
So you see, I'm not racist. I just hate everybody!!!
Posted by Dan Tas on 2008-01-23 23:16:17
That's the way to do it.
Equitable distribution.
Eyes open to see every point of view.
Suffer no fools ... yours or mine.
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-24 00:01:55
Equitable distribution.
Eyes open to see every point of view.
Suffer no fools ... yours or mine.
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-24 00:01:55
Dan, what's this "I" crap. You're cutting yourself off from the mainland again.
It's "we" hate everybody.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-24 00:21:53
It's "we" hate everybody.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-24 00:21:53
Just a perfect day...
Hate hangin' loose in the air...
We feed the troll...
--Lou Reed Not
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-24 00:32:51
Hate hangin' loose in the air...
We feed the troll...
--Lou Reed Not
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-24 00:32:51
To the one who calls himself "Reply"
My comment on the Indian players wanting to play "bad boy" of late was not specific to the Sydney test. It also isn't meant to vindicate the aussie players of their actions in that test. It's no secret that the newer Indian players are aggressive and look to be challenged. This is certainly the case with Harbhajan, Sehwag, Gambhir and of course, Sreesanth. Personally, I think its a bit of a compliment. I'd rather be called brash, confident or aggressive rather than docile. Especially when your performance backs it up.
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/current/story/332958.html
As far as me having some sort of "inferiority complex" myself that I'm projecting onto a billion of my brethren in order to explain what drives us to abominable feats, let me clarify.
I'm talking about the great Indian middle class battle. There have been cultural and racial stereotypes being hackneyed around about us for decades now and it has been a determined and persistent fight to prove these wrong. I have faced these challenges myself and know many people my age who have too. I don't believe that people like Dhoni (my age) are very different from e either. Because what it comes down to is existence. And the need to better it. Thusly, its not necessarily the case of us having an "inferiority complex" but dispelling the perception that we have one.
So, in summation, there are only three ways to conclude my position :
1. I am wrong and my experience is singular, which is fine because I find that operating in a sphere of challenges is the only way I know to live.
2. You are in denial and choose to feel insulted at the hint that we've ever occupied the lower rungs of society, thus claiming that where we are now is where we always were.
3. We belong to very different strata's of Indian society.
Although its perfectly fine that we not agree but I feel we must at least understand each other. And as far as our civilization being much older than most, I don't see the point you're trying to make using antiquity.
On a lighter note, I think its quite funny that Ponting would still attempt to threaten the Indians by hinting that he might possibly stick with Tait in Adelaide. I have this mental picture of Punter holding up a life sized, Shaun Tait-faced teddy bear going, "um.....BOO?!?"
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-24 02:59:55
My comment on the Indian players wanting to play "bad boy" of late was not specific to the Sydney test. It also isn't meant to vindicate the aussie players of their actions in that test. It's no secret that the newer Indian players are aggressive and look to be challenged. This is certainly the case with Harbhajan, Sehwag, Gambhir and of course, Sreesanth. Personally, I think its a bit of a compliment. I'd rather be called brash, confident or aggressive rather than docile. Especially when your performance backs it up.
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/current/story/332958.html
As far as me having some sort of "inferiority complex" myself that I'm projecting onto a billion of my brethren in order to explain what drives us to abominable feats, let me clarify.
I'm talking about the great Indian middle class battle. There have been cultural and racial stereotypes being hackneyed around about us for decades now and it has been a determined and persistent fight to prove these wrong. I have faced these challenges myself and know many people my age who have too. I don't believe that people like Dhoni (my age) are very different from e either. Because what it comes down to is existence. And the need to better it. Thusly, its not necessarily the case of us having an "inferiority complex" but dispelling the perception that we have one.
So, in summation, there are only three ways to conclude my position :
1. I am wrong and my experience is singular, which is fine because I find that operating in a sphere of challenges is the only way I know to live.
2. You are in denial and choose to feel insulted at the hint that we've ever occupied the lower rungs of society, thus claiming that where we are now is where we always were.
3. We belong to very different strata's of Indian society.
Although its perfectly fine that we not agree but I feel we must at least understand each other. And as far as our civilization being much older than most, I don't see the point you're trying to make using antiquity.
On a lighter note, I think its quite funny that Ponting would still attempt to threaten the Indians by hinting that he might possibly stick with Tait in Adelaide. I have this mental picture of Punter holding up a life sized, Shaun Tait-faced teddy bear going, "um.....BOO?!?"
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-24 02:59:55
Pedantic fun on a perfect day...
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=kXgbN81zNG8
--Lou Reed & Pavarotti
Kumble in his huddle
Just a perfect day...
Hate hangin' loose in the air...
We feed the troll...
Then Go beat the Ozzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Symonds at the crease
It's just a perfect day
They will keep me hanging oooooooooon
waitttttttt...(Piano)
I don't see no Steve...(more Piano)
I say my *** is Toastttttttttttttttt
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-24 03:37:16
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=kXgbN81zNG8
--Lou Reed & Pavarotti
Kumble in his huddle
Just a perfect day...
Hate hangin' loose in the air...
We feed the troll...
Then Go beat the Ozzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Symonds at the crease
It's just a perfect day
They will keep me hanging oooooooooon
waitttttttt...(Piano)
I don't see no Steve...(more Piano)
I say my *** is Toastttttttttttttttt
Posted by Tail spin on 2008-01-24 03:37:16
I have always thought, “Why do the Aussie Cricket team need to resort to mental disintegration and eventually look unsportsmanlike?”
They have the skills. They just need to turn up and they will win.
But Perth has been a revelation for me.
In their own backyard...
The game considered to be in their pocket, before even the series started...
Four pronged pace attack...
But they lost!
So they do need to resort to other tactics apart from just their playing skills to win. A foreign team has been able to infiltrate their fortress...
So I suppose they need to turn up as bad boys to win.
Out goes my theory of their skill level and they can turn up and win.
Posted by Day One on 2008-01-24 08:39:46
They have the skills. They just need to turn up and they will win.
But Perth has been a revelation for me.
In their own backyard...
The game considered to be in their pocket, before even the series started...
Four pronged pace attack...
But they lost!
So they do need to resort to other tactics apart from just their playing skills to win. A foreign team has been able to infiltrate their fortress...
So I suppose they need to turn up as bad boys to win.
Out goes my theory of their skill level and they can turn up and win.
Posted by Day One on 2008-01-24 08:39:46
Hey folks, I was reading through some of the general opinions people have about Indians and their personal characteristics. Interesting topic. Now, I am a proud Indian who has lived in the mother land for the last three years. I was born in Africa and brought up in RSA and England. Trust me, I know what racism is!
For me, there’s no country more beautiful and diverse than my very own India. Many things, including the booming economy and unprecedented national optimism levels, are going superbly for us… so much so that I can’t see myself living anywhere else in the world, not in this lifetime anyway. However, the one thing that has always bothered me about our usually loving and compassionate people is that a fairly large chunk of our population IS racist, against blacks and favouring whites. I say this from my experience over the past few years as well as several annual vacations since I was a baby. Here in India, I’ve been ignored at a bar too many times so that a white foreigner can be served first. Would it be the reverse in the UK, Australia or the US? Hmmm… I very much doubt it. Many Indians (regardless of their level in society) still have the age old impression that all white people are rich, we’re just okay and all blacks are poor. People on the streets, in the restaurants and elsewhere often prefer to chase a white junkie for their custom than a well groomed Indian. And if you’re black, you better know some influential Indians or whites, else you won’t be permitted to enter many of our ‘classy’ night clubs. It makes me nauseous. The sooner we stop denying it and educate our people about the uncountable rich cultures and traditions of other countries dominated by black people, the sooner we will improve as a nation. And let’s not go on about what Gandhiji did in South Africa, because that’s a pretty ridiculous cover to hide under. Remember that was some 75 years ago.
Personally, I have no doubt that Bhajji did call Andrew Symonds a “monkey”. I might be wrong, but I also reckon the Punjabi’s team mates share the same opinion, for after all, they have a much more intimate knowledge of the Sikh warrior’s temperamental personality than I do. But the point I think a large number of people are missing is that my opinion, your opinion, Adam Gilchrist’s opinion, Michael Clarke’s opinion, Mathew Hayden’s opinion, etc. don’t mean anything! I fully agree with the way the Indian team reacted. As Indians, we all have a responsibility to back our compatriots’ word, and you can bet your bottom dollar that if I was lucky enough to be in that squad, Bhajji would receive 100% from me. Why? Because it’s my countryman’s word and more importantly, there’s no proof… yes, no proof, full stop! Was Procter implying that Australians can be trusted while Indians don’t deserve the same respect? I believe Procter’s decision was a tad silly. Did he think the Indians, who generate the majority of revenue in world cricket, would simply lie back and say, “yes, call our boys racists and liars as well!” Not that I'm saying that should have influenced his decision. But it still has to be said, not one of his cleverest moments...
Anyway, all that’s in the past now. I’m really looking forward to a red hot Test match in Adelaide! My prediction is that it will be a thrilling draw. Good luck, Australia. You’re going to need it. Regardless of the outcome, let’s not forget that we’re all here for the same reason, whatever our nationality or colour… long live the greatest sport in the world: TEST CRICKET!
Posted by Mukund on 2008-01-24 08:48:29
For me, there’s no country more beautiful and diverse than my very own India. Many things, including the booming economy and unprecedented national optimism levels, are going superbly for us… so much so that I can’t see myself living anywhere else in the world, not in this lifetime anyway. However, the one thing that has always bothered me about our usually loving and compassionate people is that a fairly large chunk of our population IS racist, against blacks and favouring whites. I say this from my experience over the past few years as well as several annual vacations since I was a baby. Here in India, I’ve been ignored at a bar too many times so that a white foreigner can be served first. Would it be the reverse in the UK, Australia or the US? Hmmm… I very much doubt it. Many Indians (regardless of their level in society) still have the age old impression that all white people are rich, we’re just okay and all blacks are poor. People on the streets, in the restaurants and elsewhere often prefer to chase a white junkie for their custom than a well groomed Indian. And if you’re black, you better know some influential Indians or whites, else you won’t be permitted to enter many of our ‘classy’ night clubs. It makes me nauseous. The sooner we stop denying it and educate our people about the uncountable rich cultures and traditions of other countries dominated by black people, the sooner we will improve as a nation. And let’s not go on about what Gandhiji did in South Africa, because that’s a pretty ridiculous cover to hide under. Remember that was some 75 years ago.
Personally, I have no doubt that Bhajji did call Andrew Symonds a “monkey”. I might be wrong, but I also reckon the Punjabi’s team mates share the same opinion, for after all, they have a much more intimate knowledge of the Sikh warrior’s temperamental personality than I do. But the point I think a large number of people are missing is that my opinion, your opinion, Adam Gilchrist’s opinion, Michael Clarke’s opinion, Mathew Hayden’s opinion, etc. don’t mean anything! I fully agree with the way the Indian team reacted. As Indians, we all have a responsibility to back our compatriots’ word, and you can bet your bottom dollar that if I was lucky enough to be in that squad, Bhajji would receive 100% from me. Why? Because it’s my countryman’s word and more importantly, there’s no proof… yes, no proof, full stop! Was Procter implying that Australians can be trusted while Indians don’t deserve the same respect? I believe Procter’s decision was a tad silly. Did he think the Indians, who generate the majority of revenue in world cricket, would simply lie back and say, “yes, call our boys racists and liars as well!” Not that I'm saying that should have influenced his decision. But it still has to be said, not one of his cleverest moments...
Anyway, all that’s in the past now. I’m really looking forward to a red hot Test match in Adelaide! My prediction is that it will be a thrilling draw. Good luck, Australia. You’re going to need it. Regardless of the outcome, let’s not forget that we’re all here for the same reason, whatever our nationality or colour… long live the greatest sport in the world: TEST CRICKET!
Posted by Mukund on 2008-01-24 08:48:29
So one insignificant minion like Dan Tas comments on the attitude and moral fibre of a Billion Indians and all of sudden people start generalizing ? Ignorance is bliss, I'd say.
Mr Tas, stop sulking and take the perth defeat like a man, because you may run out of the sulking strength after Adelaide. **boo hoo**
I have been a regular on this website, I like the way JC writes, he is unbiased and talks cricket. This is just hate mongering and breeds ignorance.
Posted by Ranjeet on 2008-01-24 08:56:34
Mr Tas, stop sulking and take the perth defeat like a man, because you may run out of the sulking strength after Adelaide. **boo hoo**
I have been a regular on this website, I like the way JC writes, he is unbiased and talks cricket. This is just hate mongering and breeds ignorance.
Posted by Ranjeet on 2008-01-24 08:56:34
And "Alter Ego", that analysis of Indians with inferiority complex is spot on for I would say an insignificant bunch of the one billion proud Indians.
And you are their leader, even your commenting is full of the very complex you describe.
You just don't want to accept the fact that India can "sometimes" play better cricket than the so called mighty/invincible aussies. Nobody wants to accept that, not even some of the aussies.
Posted by Ranjeet on 2008-01-24 09:11:53
And you are their leader, even your commenting is full of the very complex you describe.
You just don't want to accept the fact that India can "sometimes" play better cricket than the so called mighty/invincible aussies. Nobody wants to accept that, not even some of the aussies.
Posted by Ranjeet on 2008-01-24 09:11:53
nooobsaibot and ranjeet,
Why don't you burn effigies of me? it might make your lives a bit more significant.
Jai Hind!
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-24 10:34:31
Why don't you burn effigies of me? it might make your lives a bit more significant.
Jai Hind!
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-24 10:34:31
Mukund, India suffers racism because you suffer racists like Harbi.
Be the change you want to see.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-24 11:00:36
Be the change you want to see.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-24 11:00:36
Ranjeet: Dan Tas "an insignificant minion"?
"This is just hate mongering and breeds ignorance."
I firmly believe that this last comment you've made about Dan Tas' work applies to what you've written about him too.
Posted by TA on 2008-01-24 11:11:48
"This is just hate mongering and breeds ignorance."
I firmly believe that this last comment you've made about Dan Tas' work applies to what you've written about him too.
Posted by TA on 2008-01-24 11:11:48
Thanks, Hanuman. My humble opinion is that I'm the change I want to see in our beautiful India. Gandhiji line, na? :-)
Posted by Mukund on 2008-01-24 11:20:24
Posted by Mukund on 2008-01-24 11:20:24
Mukund, I don't think he was promoting blind nationalism.
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-24 12:05:07
Posted by Hanuman on 2008-01-24 12:05:07
It's not racism & hate mongering - it's just a different opinion.
Much like the 'monkey is a revered creature in India - therefore Harbhajan must've been paying a compliment' line...
Posted by Mike Hunt on 2008-01-24 12:19:17
Much like the 'monkey is a revered creature in India - therefore Harbhajan must've been paying a compliment' line...
Posted by Mike Hunt on 2008-01-24 12:19:17
Tait bowled badly in Perth, no doubt about that, but I think Ponting mismanaged him too (all the fast bowlers in fact). To get given only 2-3 over bursts 20 mins before the end of a session with a wearing ball that hadn't started to reverse swing yet was not ideal. Was a miracle expected in such a short spell? As well as being shouted at to hurry up the overs. Not the ideal way to blood in a young fast bowler.
I think if Tait had been given slightly longer spells with a newish ball he would have found his rhythm a lot better. Every time I've seen him bowl at Adelaide he's done really well.
And I agree, we need a better new ball bowler than Johnson - wickets not withstanding. Why does Ponting persevere with him? Ponting took a while to work Lee out too.
Posted by MT on 2008-01-24 13:39:33
I think if Tait had been given slightly longer spells with a newish ball he would have found his rhythm a lot better. Every time I've seen him bowl at Adelaide he's done really well.
And I agree, we need a better new ball bowler than Johnson - wickets not withstanding. Why does Ponting persevere with him? Ponting took a while to work Lee out too.
Posted by MT on 2008-01-24 13:39:33
"nooobsaibot and ranjeet,
Why don't you burn effigies of me? it might make your lives a bit more significant. "
why don't u shut the f'ck up and provide me with evidence that a large majority of Indians suffer wit inferiority? ..... and make your life a bit more significant......what say?
Posted by nooobsaibot on 2008-01-24 14:32:56
Why don't you burn effigies of me? it might make your lives a bit more significant. "
why don't u shut the f'ck up and provide me with evidence that a large majority of Indians suffer wit inferiority? ..... and make your life a bit more significant......what say?
Posted by nooobsaibot on 2008-01-24 14:32:56
"Oh, and the "aussie guyz" would have held their last 3 to force a draw in Sydney if they were in a similar spot." - Alter Ego
The viewpoint propounded by you in the article belongs to you and, may be, some of the other Indians who have suffered from inferiority complex. Buddy, Do you know what is funny in your analysis? By forwarding a theory of erstwhile inferiority complex being superceded by superiority complex due to justifiable reasons, you thought you have been able to separate your brain from your heart.... it is not so actually, in fact your heart is speaking out there in the article. Not only I do not agree with your viewpoints, I consider it as a figment of imagination. May be, this is how some of the Non-resident Indians feel at times being at the receiving end most of the times.. I do not know whether you are NRI or not... but I have heard this before mostly from non-resident indians.... I do not think Indians living in India feel so... Indians living in India has been able to accept the progress India is making much more gracefully than, may be, Indians living abroad. This is a cricket blog... so I do not want to bore everybody with a topic which they would not realate with... But I would be waiting for your analysis next time when aussie cricketers behave like indian cricketers after they lose to England.. but one thing I am sure of, no australians will arrive at a theory similar to yours..."Gentlemen and Ladies, our forefathers were sent away from "Her Queens" land and we lived in with relative inferiority complex for long time, but now we are much better off than poms, be it sports, be it economy, be it anything... so our superiority complex is finding expression in this fashion". Please keep your convoluted analysis with yourself....
Posted by No Argument on 2008-01-24 17:19:45
The viewpoint propounded by you in the article belongs to you and, may be, some of the other Indians who have suffered from inferiority complex. Buddy, Do you know what is funny in your analysis? By forwarding a theory of erstwhile inferiority complex being superceded by superiority complex due to justifiable reasons, you thought you have been able to separate your brain from your heart.... it is not so actually, in fact your heart is speaking out there in the article. Not only I do not agree with your viewpoints, I consider it as a figment of imagination. May be, this is how some of the Non-resident Indians feel at times being at the receiving end most of the times.. I do not know whether you are NRI or not... but I have heard this before mostly from non-resident indians.... I do not think Indians living in India feel so... Indians living in India has been able to accept the progress India is making much more gracefully than, may be, Indians living abroad. This is a cricket blog... so I do not want to bore everybody with a topic which they would not realate with... But I would be waiting for your analysis next time when aussie cricketers behave like indian cricketers after they lose to England.. but one thing I am sure of, no australians will arrive at a theory similar to yours..."Gentlemen and Ladies, our forefathers were sent away from "Her Queens" land and we lived in with relative inferiority complex for long time, but now we are much better off than poms, be it sports, be it economy, be it anything... so our superiority complex is finding expression in this fashion". Please keep your convoluted analysis with yourself....
Posted by No Argument on 2008-01-24 17:19:45
This is a nice post. I find it hard to disagree with anybody at all in here.
Posted by Sameer on 2008-01-25 00:08:34
Posted by Sameer on 2008-01-25 00:08:34
No Argument, I desperately need your email, I am an Indian, resident of Vijayawada,AP, India.
Posted by ME-AN on 2008-01-25 02:24:52
Posted by ME-AN on 2008-01-25 02:24:52
I tend to disgaree with Alter Ego's original comment and Dan Tas observations on modern India and the Indian culture.
1) Let me start by stating that, this blog is about cricket and we should confine our comments to Cricket. Peple like Dan Tas should refrain from blogging about Indians and our culture when they have no intimate knowledge of India and its vast cultural history.
2) Humility is the one of the core foundations of the Indian culture. We are taught at a very young age by our care takers about this. However often the humility of Indians are confused by some as a weakness or having a inferiority complex, and that's cleary the case here (comments made Dan Tas and Alter Ego). Just look at Sachin, Rahul and Anil Kumble. There has not been a tougher cricketer in India than these three and yet they are right down humble. Sreesanths and Harbhanjans, please learn from your seniors.
3) Clearly, India at the moment is a nation bursting with energy and bristling with confidence. As a nation we have found our voice after years of being told to shut up. But there is a fine line between assertiveness and arrogance, between firmness and being rigid, and between standing up for what is right and bulldozing. There is no doubt that we are the financial might in cricket - We are the undisputed leader of this great game. However, a good leader is one that is respected and not feared or loathed. It is up to us to choose where to stand.
Peace and Out.
Posted by Pat on 2008-01-25 02:48:31
1) Let me start by stating that, this blog is about cricket and we should confine our comments to Cricket. Peple like Dan Tas should refrain from blogging about Indians and our culture when they have no intimate knowledge of India and its vast cultural history.
2) Humility is the one of the core foundations of the Indian culture. We are taught at a very young age by our care takers about this. However often the humility of Indians are confused by some as a weakness or having a inferiority complex, and that's cleary the case here (comments made Dan Tas and Alter Ego). Just look at Sachin, Rahul and Anil Kumble. There has not been a tougher cricketer in India than these three and yet they are right down humble. Sreesanths and Harbhanjans, please learn from your seniors.
3) Clearly, India at the moment is a nation bursting with energy and bristling with confidence. As a nation we have found our voice after years of being told to shut up. But there is a fine line between assertiveness and arrogance, between firmness and being rigid, and between standing up for what is right and bulldozing. There is no doubt that we are the financial might in cricket - We are the undisputed leader of this great game. However, a good leader is one that is respected and not feared or loathed. It is up to us to choose where to stand.
Peace and Out.
Posted by Pat on 2008-01-25 02:48:31
why don't u shut the f'ck up and provide me with evidence that a large majority of Indians suffer wit inferiority? - nooobsaibot.
Dude, I never said anyone suffers from inferiority. I mean, exactly how stupid are you? Why don't you read my post again, dhyaan se, and then comment before analysizing the relative size of your fathers penis to the rest of the world?
I think Pat's point number 3 sufficiently summarizes what I meant to say. Well done Pat!
Lets get back to cricket....
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-25 04:12:37
Dude, I never said anyone suffers from inferiority. I mean, exactly how stupid are you? Why don't you read my post again, dhyaan se, and then comment before analysizing the relative size of your fathers penis to the rest of the world?
I think Pat's point number 3 sufficiently summarizes what I meant to say. Well done Pat!
Lets get back to cricket....
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-25 04:12:37
Well done Pat....copying stuff...chek dis link out!!!
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/332989.html
Posted by Pat is a ....CopyCAT on 2008-01-25 05:25:13
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/332989.html
Posted by Pat is a ....CopyCAT on 2008-01-25 05:25:13
1) "India at the moment is a nation bursting with energy and bristling with confidence. But it is also faces the risk of losing its humility, which some confuse as weakness. In the words of a perceptive colleague, India is a nation that has found its voice after years of being told to shut up. But there is a fine line between assertiveness and arrogance, between firmness and being rigid, and between standing up for what is right and bulldozing."
2) "Sreesanth, a talented but temperamental swing bowler, once bowled a bouncer to Sachin Tendulkar in a domestic match and charged down the pitch to glare the batsman down. The next ball disappeared over his head as Tendulkar let him know where he stood.Sreesanth, a talented but temperamental swing bowler, once bowled a bouncer to Sachin Tendulkar in a domestic match and charged down the pitch to glare the batsman down. The next ball disappeared over his head as Tendulkar let him know where he stood."
Sambit Bal's article in cricinfo....
Does not point no 1 contradicting point no 2? As far as I know, sachin is an indian. Hence, if sreesanth is behaving aggresively in domestic cricket also, is it not something to do with individual character rather than a deprived feeling of a "deprived nation" in a hurry to settle scores with rest of the world?
One thing is obvious. However good your intentions are and however passionate and patriotic you are, Sambit Bal has proved beyond doubt that writing convincingly and lucidly in "Queens' Language" has nothing to do with soundness of thought or power to analyze event with incisive insight. I'll definitely think twice from now on before reading his article.
Posted by No Argument on 2008-01-25 06:27:18
2) "Sreesanth, a talented but temperamental swing bowler, once bowled a bouncer to Sachin Tendulkar in a domestic match and charged down the pitch to glare the batsman down. The next ball disappeared over his head as Tendulkar let him know where he stood.Sreesanth, a talented but temperamental swing bowler, once bowled a bouncer to Sachin Tendulkar in a domestic match and charged down the pitch to glare the batsman down. The next ball disappeared over his head as Tendulkar let him know where he stood."
Sambit Bal's article in cricinfo....
Does not point no 1 contradicting point no 2? As far as I know, sachin is an indian. Hence, if sreesanth is behaving aggresively in domestic cricket also, is it not something to do with individual character rather than a deprived feeling of a "deprived nation" in a hurry to settle scores with rest of the world?
One thing is obvious. However good your intentions are and however passionate and patriotic you are, Sambit Bal has proved beyond doubt that writing convincingly and lucidly in "Queens' Language" has nothing to do with soundness of thought or power to analyze event with incisive insight. I'll definitely think twice from now on before reading his article.
Posted by No Argument on 2008-01-25 06:27:18
"is it not something to do with individual character rather than a deprived feeling of a "deprived nation" in a hurry to settle scores with rest of the world?"
Sambit was trying to use Sreesanth and Tendlya as an allegory to bring out the two Faces of Indian cricket - assertiveness and arrogance, firmness and rigidity, standing up for what is right and bulldozing.
The statements (1 and 2) are therefore far from contradictory. If anything, they are complimentary.
I think you give too much credit to your comprehension skills, No Argument, and are quick to diss the opinions and writing of others.
Don't be a balti man...
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-25 07:27:26
Sambit was trying to use Sreesanth and Tendlya as an allegory to bring out the two Faces of Indian cricket - assertiveness and arrogance, firmness and rigidity, standing up for what is right and bulldozing.
The statements (1 and 2) are therefore far from contradictory. If anything, they are complimentary.
I think you give too much credit to your comprehension skills, No Argument, and are quick to diss the opinions and writing of others.
Don't be a balti man...
Posted by Alter Ego on 2008-01-25 07:27:26
"I think you give too much credit to your comprehension skills, No Argument, and are quick to diss the opinions and writing of others."
You need not be overzealous about what is being dished out in the media and need not comprehend them as god's sermon. Most of these talk of new found arrogance of indian youth is plain rubbish and directed towards gullible readers like you. It is media's creation to sell more prints. I would guess RP Singh, Ishant Sharma and even yuvi are also young indian just like Sree Santh and Bhajji. Though exaggerated for the sake of driving home a point, once Bertrand Russell made a comment at UK legislature - "Give me a dedicated team of 100 men with unlimited money and persuasive skills, I would prove to the world that sun rises in the west and sets in the east. But this belief will not be practised in real world, it would be uttered in divine tone during sunday prayers with complete faith even though reality would be so very obviously different than faith." If you see RP Singh of 2008 as cool as Mohinder Amarnath of 1975 and Bhajji of 2008 is as temparamental as Sidhu of 1988, how do you explain that?
Posted by No Argument on 2008-01-25 08:05:32
You need not be overzealous about what is being dished out in the media and need not comprehend them as god's sermon. Most of these talk of new found arrogance of indian youth is plain rubbish and directed towards gullible readers like you. It is media's creation to sell more prints. I would guess RP Singh, Ishant Sharma and even yuvi are also young indian just like Sree Santh and Bhajji. Though exaggerated for the sake of driving home a point, once Bertrand Russell made a comment at UK legislature - "Give me a dedicated team of 100 men with unlimited money and persuasive skills, I would prove to the world that sun rises in the west and sets in the east. But this belief will not be practised in real world, it would be uttered in divine tone during sunday prayers with complete faith even though reality would be so very obviously different than faith." If you see RP Singh of 2008 as cool as Mohinder Amarnath of 1975 and Bhajji of 2008 is as temparamental as Sidhu of 1988, how do you explain that?
Posted by No Argument on 2008-01-25 08:05:32
"There is no doubt that we are the financial might in cricket - We are the undisputed leader of this great game."
Pat: I sincerely hope you were just talking about money. Otherwise you will have a dispute on your hands. India is still yet to really put its mouth where its money is.
Posted by TA on 2008-01-25 10:53:31
Pat: I sincerely hope you were just talking about money. Otherwise you will have a dispute on your hands. India is still yet to really put its mouth where its money is.
Posted by TA on 2008-01-25 10:53:31
The number of blogs on apparent umpire mistakes appearing on the net and coming out of India does cricket harm. It clearly comes from folk who have never umpired a game in their lives, and certainly never taken the time to learn the Laws and the Regulations on these matches.
One point that must be remembered is that radar ball shown by television has been declared by the TV station as inaccurate.
Umpires who reach the ICC elite panel have many years of training and experience behind them. It is noticable how few India has at this level.
On the evidence before them umpires may make errors of judgement; but they do not make mistakes!
In-fact, if the umpires made anything like the mistakes the players make, a test match would be over in less than a day.
Posted by Graeme on 2008-01-26 06:11:25
One point that must be remembered is that radar ball shown by television has been declared by the TV station as inaccurate.
Umpires who reach the ICC elite panel have many years of training and experience behind them. It is noticable how few India has at this level.
On the evidence before them umpires may make errors of judgement; but they do not make mistakes!
In-fact, if the umpires made anything like the mistakes the players make, a test match would be over in less than a day.
Posted by Graeme on 2008-01-26 06:11:25
Alter Ego
"Kumble’s remark on the Aussie spirit in Sydney was unfair and inexplicable. After all, it was three of his batsmen that failed to last the final 10 minutes of the test. Why should the Aussies be blamed for winning when it was his team that snatched defeat from out of nowhere? Why was more outrage reserved for the winning team and the poor umpiring rather than the losing one? What explains the post-match discussion becoming so lopsided?"
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Anil Kumble never complained for losing. He could have done that even in the 1st test. He complained about the sportsman spirit. Look Clarke gave a catch to 1st slip yet he didn't leave as if waiting for the umpire to change the rules of cricket exclusively for the Aussies. Who said Aussies were the better team in that test? Only a statistian will say so. They won because of the umpires help not by merit. Symonds himself admitted he deserved to be given out. Inspite of so knowing you are out but not leaving the crease is really against sportsmanship. Kumble was right in accusing the Aussies. Look as soon as they started playing with sportsmanship in 3rd test, they lost.
Posted by Rdx on 2008-01-29 14:35:17
"Kumble’s remark on the Aussie spirit in Sydney was unfair and inexplicable. After all, it was three of his batsmen that failed to last the final 10 minutes of the test. Why should the Aussies be blamed for winning when it was his team that snatched defeat from out of nowhere? Why was more outrage reserved for the winning team and the poor umpiring rather than the losing one? What explains the post-match discussion becoming so lopsided?"
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Anil Kumble never complained for losing. He could have done that even in the 1st test. He complained about the sportsman spirit. Look Clarke gave a catch to 1st slip yet he didn't leave as if waiting for the umpire to change the rules of cricket exclusively for the Aussies. Who said Aussies were the better team in that test? Only a statistian will say so. They won because of the umpires help not by merit. Symonds himself admitted he deserved to be given out. Inspite of so knowing you are out but not leaving the crease is really against sportsmanship. Kumble was right in accusing the Aussies. Look as soon as they started playing with sportsmanship in 3rd test, they lost.
Posted by Rdx on 2008-01-29 14:35:17
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